Impact Measurement Case Study:   SDG 8 Decent Work and Economic Growth
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Impact Measurement Case Study: SDG 8 Decent Work and Economic Growth


Hi, my name is Unmesh Sheth. I’m a founder and CEO of Sopact, a mission-driven company to make impact measurement and management simple All about the outcome, this is a new webinar series designed to generate the dialogue between the leaders and the change-makers from the respective fields today we intend to learn more about the challenges solutions and the risk of each sustainable development goal and theme area All of our outcomes is a regular webinar series And it’s really also designed to generate a very lively discussion on how to effectively use and scale mission Social Impact mission of the social enterprises and nonprofits and rather change through systematic continuous learning and improvement process So, welcome you all. I’m so happy to see amazing interest in this topic and so many participant to assign up in spite of the holiday period, I’m so happy that you have joined today, is it about the topic? Is it about the impact on economic development? Is it about sustainable development goals, SDG 8 like job creation? Or how to scale the social businesses? Well to me. It’s Personal, it’s really I want to learn both But before I start I want to start By correcting one of the gross mistakes that we made in our marketing email in fact that email say that they have impacted more than 263 million lives. Clearly, that was not even impact intension. It was really a gross mistake. It was not even about over-claiming at all so it was really about mistakes. Our apologies for not completely reading through the information that we share with you. Thank you, Sachi for pointing it out! So let’s just hear from Sachi today So while the focus is really in a development context today I’m here the best practices that society will discuss will apply to both the developed and developing country perspective. We are so privileged to have chief impact officer and founder of Upaya, a social venture. Sachi Shenoy has a decade of experience in developing social enterprises to meet the needs of the poor and ultra-poor designing and implementing field interventions and conducting social performance evaluations and investment advisory for a variety of organizations throughout the Asia she currently served on the board of the Upaya and And also advisory board for the Chicago Booth social enterprise initiative Sachi has an amazing resume I can go on but instead I then we rather he and the whole story from her and her personal journey Directly from her so if you are experiencing that you need help in scaling social enterprise and nonprofits give their social situation and This is the perfect topic because we want you to understand and learn how to scale this social organization’s mission and continuous learning. Scaling the mission is not one-two-three years of process. It’s a multi-year process and even let us hear from Sachi. I had Sachi at the beginning of my career transition from a corporate career to the social sector When I was about to go to India for several years working on understanding some of the social impact missions with the largest women organization, SEWA. In fact I met Sachi while I was searching For the answers on my own social impact journey. And she introduced me through a systematic case study of job creation through a very well thought through impact measurement framework For the for the two social organizations in India Samruddhi and Eko Karega. She will talk about some of them, but also we talk about the broader framework. How to build a system that can collect and analyze results? I had no idea at that time that this was my start on the impact measurement journey. What impressed me then how detailed process she has built over the period of time and so let’s just hear from her one last thing before I invite Sachi and this is something about where many people who hear a bunch and try to compare her world with the microfinance and while the idea of the Upaya model took shape during the microfinance time and microfinance typical She has thought and her learnings are different and Upaya is a very different model. They meet a reference architecture about the job creation, doing the right way. So I’m so excited to invite Sachi to share her impact journey today Thank you so much and by the way If you have any questions, please, please Write it down in QA. This is going to be a very interactive session. We want you to have continuous Questions and we will pause and we’ll ask her question directly. So keep it interactive and ask more questions So look forward to inviting Sachi. Sachi, please Welcome and Maybe you can share your screen. Great. Unmesh. Thank you so much to you and the SOPACT team for inviting me and for That very kind introduction It’s been a pleasure being on this journey with you and the team for almost a decade now This is a topic I am very very passionate about measuring outcomes but before I dive into This presentation I’d like to start with a disclaimer and that is just to say right off the bat That I am NOT a data scientist. I am NOT a certified trainer in Monitoring and evaluation methods nor am I a consultant? I am however a practitioner who cares deeply about moving the needle on poverty eradication and so during this presentation I am going to talk about how my organization Upaya social ventures thinks about its social outcomes and why that is so important to us. You may see a looser use of some terminology here But these are methods that have worked really well for us over the years So it is 2020 a new decade a great time to make resolutions for yourself and for your organization! I Personally know a lot of mission driven organizations in my network that have resolved to be better about measuring their impact this year and often a good place to start is to Highlight your numbers right to highlight your outreach How many lives have you touched with your work? How many people have you served? Here is a random assortment of impact headlines that I’ve grabbed off of other organizations websites Nice big numbers, you know, these are all extremely impressive But those numbers do not Capture or I should say those numbers do not define impact. They are the start of your impact journey. I Like to think of these out which numbers as the what? But then we must ask So what? Outreach is not enough right we should think about what happened as a result So your organization trained a hundred thousand youth? Did those youth get jobs as a result? Did their lives improve? Answering this next layer of questions is really where we’re going to focus today’s discussion But first I’d like to introduce my organization upaya social ventures and we may Did a fabulous job in setting it up and especially talking about our founding story? Which is around the time we met and made a connection Our mission is to create dignified jobs and eradicate extreme poverty our work most closely aligns with SDG 1 & 8 and Today I will dive deeper into the metrics that we use to measure Decent work and economic growth and the eradication of extreme poverty The first question I get though is well, how do you create jobs? Well, we create jobs by supporting the entrepreneurs that are building businesses in Marginalized communities in India that we feel have the potential to employ the ultra poor We identify high potential enterprises very early in the game and we make seed investments, this is patient equity capital that we invest and then we coach entrepreneurs to help them grow their businesses we we advise them on operations and financial management and we facilitate connections to their next round of investment so they can keep growing well after they have worked with us if We do our job well Our investment is returned to us with a premium and it sets up our own sustainability to invest in the next company Our key metric and everything that we do is the number of dignified jobs that have been created by our investors who we also call our partners and Here you can see a map of India and get a general sense of where our investees are so far we have invested in 17 partner businesses and Altogether these businesses have created more than 14,500 jobs Now, yes, you may be saying well that 14,500 job number is an outreach number and that is exactly correct but this is the number we cite if we were giving someone a one-sentence summary of upaya in Practice though. It is very important for us to ask. So what what good are these? 14,500 jobs actually happy and When Meisha I will just say I am happy to pause intermittently before I really dive into our Logic model and outcomes. Should I pause now for questions or will you just let me know when is a good time? To ask questions But while you are doing that I think you might want to also talk about some of the methodology which I’m sure you’re going to Do that with respect to the process? My personal business went by the way. I really want to take questions from you not from me person Sure okay, so I’m gonna keep going and Obviously just just cut in if if you think questions are building up. I’m not exactly keeping an eye on the the Q&A box But every day is a question that is coming it is some of the major challenges have you faced in the journey Yes, I will definitely touch on that through the course of the next few slides but Will will focus on that at the end as well So As I was just saying it is not enough for us to just count the number of jobs that we have created We really want to figure out are these jobs improving lives because at the end of the day, that’s why we exist So to answer that question we turn to a logic model to help us very systematically breakdown our intervention and Think through step by step What is the cause and effect of what we do? With any logic model you should start with the inputs What do you have? Or how do you think about transmission? What is your reason for existence? With those inputs in hand, what will you actually do to carry out your mission, you know This is where you really list out the activities Now outputs what happens as a direct result of those activities This can also be thought of as outreach those numbers. We were just talking about How many lives has your program touched? Right and this is what you have? direct control over With those outputs we then think about outcomes and this is where it starts to get interesting This is the so what? What happens as a result of those outputs? You touched a thousand lines great, but did those lives improve? These are really the meaty questions and these can also happen Perhaps a little bit outside your direct sphere of influence. This is what happens over a longer period of time and Then lastly as part of the logic model we have impact in An academic sense to prove impact technically means you need to be able to show statistic evidence To link your action to the observed outcomes This is where you prove that causal connection and most of the time to do this requires Undertaking a randomized control trial or some other rigorous research method But here I want to drive home a point and this is my opinion. Of course we mission driven organizations should not be scared off by the intensity of an RCT or Rigorous research that prevents us from measuring anything This is not an all-or-nothing game So we should not say that just because we cannot afford rigorous research that we shouldn’t measure social outcomes. I Feel like too many people stop at just the outputs or outreach and what I really want To be the key takeaway of this presentation is that we can and should Move to this middle ground of outcomes and even if we don’t do anything more rigorous than that to really prove impact measuring outcomes and being very systematic about it can yield just a wealth of information and Improve your models and I will talk about how that has helped us So here I show a pious version of the logic model as I said before We start with our mission to create dignified jobs for the forest of the port by investing and scalable businesses the primary activities we undertake is a very rigorous screening and selection process and then we put the businesses, we select through a four month accelerator program and provide them deeper support after the accelerator program we will choose a handful of them that actually receive patient equity investment and then more hands-on consulting support over the next two or three years and By doing all these activities what we are really hoping is the immediate output are profitable self-sustaining and scalable enterprises and if these businesses are all those things, they should create new jobs for the poor and these are the things that we have some control over as upaya because this is how we work hands-on with our entrepreneurs and We really advise them on how to make their systems more robust and their businesses more profitable And so we hope that yields more jobs But then after that what happens is a little bit out of our control But we certainly hope it happens because that’s what our mission is and that is these new jobs should provide stable and increased income for job holders and that income should move those job holders out of poverty and We will look at how it moves job holders out of poverty along a number of dimensions Once we have defined all the steps of our logic model We can then define the metrics that Correspond with each of these steps and these are the quantitative measures that give us an idea of whether we are on track or not with our mission statement for Example if we want to track whether our portfolio companies are scaling or not We would measure quarterly revenue growth and See does this revenue growth track to the entrepreneurs financial projections? We look at you know, what percentage of companies in our portfolio have hit profitability How much follow-on capital have they attracted? Are they able to? Meet their growth goals and keep scaling To track progress out of poverty. We look at a number of different things so first and foremost, we would measure the increase in income and I’m going to talk about that a little later and Then observe what this increased income helps that person and their household do are they putting this new income? Towards proving the condition of their house Are they able to purchase and eat more food? Are they purchasing more assets for the household or productive assets? Are they sending their children to school? We collect this information directly from the job holders and let them tell us what they are doing and how they are being helped The more a person’s income allows them to make decisions about their well-being and their aspirations The greater progress they will make out of poverty So we try and capture like I said directly from them what they claim these jobs are helping them to I Want to drill in to this last point a little bit more and I I just want to get granular for a second Like I said, we have to move beyond just counting the number of jobs created but also assess how they are creating change Especially for us it’s it’s important to report to the spirit of the SDGs SDG number eight doesn’t say just number of jobs. It cares about decent work These are jobs that must pay fairly pay well be dignified and move people out of poverty, right? so here I’ll talk about how we measure the quality of that job and this is highlighting some of the bullet points that I showed in our outcomes section of the logic model So one dimension that we use to measure the Quality is the increase in income that this job provides We measure income at the household level we’ve learned over the years that among the poor often the lowest common denominator when it comes to earning is Not the individual but the household Very often it is not the fact that you know, very simply one job equals one individual For a given job. Sometimes you have a husband or wife or other combination of family members that are fulfilling the activities of that job They’re juggling lots of different things informal and formal To earn a living so it can be hard to disentangle some of these income sources So in our surveys we establish that we want to understand all the various activities The household is undertaking to earn the income so we ask Prior to you getting this job this new job from our partner company What all activities were you pursuing? So for example, let’s say the woman was working as a sweeper at the local hospital Her husband was farming and her adult son was working as a handyman We then asked them to estimate How much they were earning in each situation? Now they may report amounts in different frequencies based on their recall. So the sweeper was probably getting weekly earnings in hand her husband who’s farming is reporting on seasonal income and Maybe her son is getting a monthly wage, but it is important for us to note all of these down Once we have these amounts we standardize all of them to one Frequency for example daily and we add them all up to get Previous household income per day and that is what we record for this job holder Then we ask what are they currently earning in this new job that upaya partner company has created for them For example, maybe the woman has now been trained as a nursing assistant Thanks to one of our investees She is no longer working as a sweeper. She is earning much more now and Maybe her husband and son are still working in their jobs. So we carry that their incomes forward as long as they validate that and We calculate what current Household income per day is again. We standardize it to the same time and frequency and it’s the difference between current and previous household income that helps us calculate the percent income increase we also calculate what percent the partner business income comprises of the Overall household amount and we have found that it is on average across our portfolio Forty or fifty percent of the total that the household is getting So that tells us that The incomes from our partner companies do comprise a large part of household income and that it is really helping moving To move the needle for household incomes overall So Here are some bullet points as just a quick summary for how we calculate that Percentage increase in income gather all the previous income sources gather all the current income sources standardize them for the same period and then Calculate the percentage difference The one thing I will just say as a reminder is do not overlook discontinued income sources there may be some things that the household did previously that they are not currently doing and It would be important to capture that in the previous income calculation Other questions that we ask to assess job quality Include is your income more stable and reliable than before Because it’s not enough to just increase their income You know a lot of these households, especially if they’re characterized as ultra poor have always subsisted on very Informal parts of the economy they cobbled together, whatever they can to earn a living for a day and it’s the instability and Irregularity of that income that often keeps them in poverty. So we want to make sure not only are they earning more but is this now more a predictable stream of income and Really they need to be the ones to tell us that like what is their perception of how reliable this income is? We also want to assess overall job satisfaction But we never just ask them. Are you satisfied with this job? Because they may feel pressured to say yes, they may feel like if they don’t say us they might lose their job So instead we ask them more in the spirit of conversation would you recommend this job to a close friend or family member and Usually if they’re happy with their job they would say yes We also ask what assets have they purchased after getting this job and Lastly we look at their longer-term aspirations and say are their longer-term goals You think this job will help you achieve? The income questions, we just spoke about comprise a subset of our overall survey Our survey that we administer directly to our job holders Contains 26 questions and takes about 12 minutes to administer Now over the last 10 years we have interviewed over 1,300 job holders from among our portfolio of 17 companies and in the next few slides, I want to take you through the resulting analysis of asking these questions and Here, I’m sorry for how much is on this slide and it may be hard to read but here we are showing household income increase as a Result of them getting the jobs created by our partner companies. So this is the calculation. I was just talking about broken out by our partner business and Just so you know This dashboard is also readily available on our website on our impact dashboard so you can go to WWII SVO org slash impact and This will show you our entire impact dashboard for anyone that wants to take a closer look We also report on the average income increase across the portfolio not just business by business and We have a goal to effect at least a 50% increase on average across the portfolio so this number here at the top the 80% average and income increase is very important for us to track to make sure that that we are Staying true to our mission We also show here on the Left What assets job holders were able to purchase as a result of getting these jobs And so this is out of the sample that we’ve surveyed how many people are saying that yes These are the assets that the jobs have helped them actually attain and Maybe not surprisingly, but we always see that mobile phones and I should say smartphones are the most popular purchase And Here we show how Respondents have answered the question of aspiration So what will the income help them achieve and you can see that the majority? really want to put that income towards fixing the condition of their homes and building up an emergency savings fund because that’s usually what really hinders them from making progress and more and more our Respondents are making it a priority to send all of their children to school And so we do see more and more increase in that indicator as well Now what is wonderful about tracking these outcomes is the feedback that is provides us it’s this is not just about reporting and you know putting fancy marketing materials together if we find that incomes aren’t increasing by much or if we find that people just aren’t Purchasing assets or they’re not fixing up their homes Or if they honestly felt like this income wasn’t helping them Towards a long-term goal we can discuss these findings with our entrepreneurs and Our entrepreneurs care about this because these are some of the early warning signs that affect job retention if a perk if a person is so apathetic about their job and if they’re just not responding very positively to our survey questions and if they see very little benefit in their jobs they will leave them and so it behooves the entrepreneur to address these issues and work with us to create higher quality jobs So I hope some of what I walked through gives you some ideas for how to measure the quality of jobs created how to Have some rich content to report back into something like SDG number eight and also SDG number one by extension I do have a few more slides But I I will definitely pause here and when Maish look to you for any questions that we can address Thank You Sachi there are many questions on the and the QA board and I again Canty to encourage you to have more questions, so and Sachi is a very So I like to cover most of the questions before then I have my own question, but I’m gonna ask the audience question first, so The first one is did you face any challenges in the law and regulation? And how do you do that Oh Challenges with law and regulation so, I guess one thing that We are still up against that has still been a challenge is It is very difficult in India And in fact, it’s almost impossible as a foreign investor to do debt and so for us to be able to lend to companies and so our primary instrument has been patient equity capital as I mentioned and As you as you can probably imagine putting equity into these companies and taking an ownership stake is wonderful from the perspective that you can truly partner with these businesses and grow with them and You you know forge a really close partnership but exiting these investments is always a challenge and So out of the 17 investments we have made we have had one equity Exit and we are working on two more this year that we hope to affect But Something that we are really hoping to prove over the longer term is that you can make patient equity investments and get your capital back and I think We just have to be more and more creative with Working with our entrepreneurs in a way to slowly exit our stakes in a way That doesn’t rock the boat with their business Also still empowers the entrepreneur and sucks them up for follow-on investment But also helps us you know regain our investment base and be able to make more investments and so just The investment regulations in India are very much a challenge and the other challenge that I touched on was when we first started deploying surveys in the field and wanting to assess Income increase. The first thing we ran into is how difficult it was to Disentangle within a household who is doing what and who is earning one. And so we very hot very quickly had to pivot from Just understanding what the job holder was doing You know before and after this job and getting the whole family Involved because really is a story of household income Improving not just individual income improving. So I think we’ve had just a lot of learnings on That with the outcomes With API Mm-hmm So I’ll start with that theory of change question and then hopefully hit on others So I think using the theory of change versus a logic model is really just a matter of personal preference I think we could have easily started with you know, what do we want our impact to be? What are the outcomes that we most certainly want to affect and then work our way backwards? But for me I I knew after spending a number of years in India both working in the microfinance sector and then working on other Entrepreneurship initiatives what I kept finding and this was maybe 15 years ago But I kept finding is that small business owners and to early-stage entrepreneurs? simply were not getting access to capital and These aren’t your micro entrepreneurs, you know, the one that microfinance serves really. Well, these are people that you know had slightly larger businesses and if those businesses were to get an infusion of capital say At ten thousand US dollars or twenty five thousand or even fifty thousand they could really scale and create jobs in their community so you can think of these as small and growing businesses as GBS or SMEs are some of the terms that are used and They were completely starved for capital. And so I Really wanted to do something about that. And so I think when I was building a pile with my co-founders We really started this with okay We have an investment model that we are starting with That’s those are our inputs if you will and we had certain activities for how do we find the right entrepreneurs? And how do we support them? And so that really was a logical starting point for us to Then build out the logic model of saying okay, if we do this what should happen next I do often talk internally with my team Especially my colleagues who are helping me on impact management and saying we probably should have a theory of change Version two of what we do and if we go through that exercise, I wonder if anything will be different So it’s a TBD on that I? Think there was a question also on the sectors and the kinds of businesses that we have invested in and so I will also say that We are sector agnostic We have a really nice variety of different sectors represented in our portfolio the one criteria that we absolutely Do not negotiate or budge on is that any business we support has to have the potential to create Jobs at scale. For example at least a thousand jobs in a three-year period for the poorest of the poor in their communities, which is why we are relentless about looking at the poverty levels and Looking at the types of people they are proposing to create jobs for other than that, it can be any sector and so we have some for example that are in agriculture whether it’s dairy or farming produce we have also invested in say a silk weaving business and lots of different rural Manufacturing businesses. We have a wonderful business in Assam that actually manufactures environmentally-friendly tableware out of palm leaves and Has grown their business to create over 3000 jobs over the last four years We also have some businesses in waste management, you know that are working with Primarily women who were former rag pickers, you know working in these horrible conditions and landfills But training them to work in Much more dignified conditions like within a recycling plant You know on corporate campuses that that they are partnering with and so I would say that there’s there’s a nice variety of different sectors that that we are involved in Great Give everybody an approach we do that Lisa Take one question from each one of the minimum What kind of methods do you use to help define an outcome for instance? My organization’s this is the question from three For instance, my organization is currently creating Measurable outcomes for services, but we are having very difficult time defining what empowerment is How do you how would you go about creating measures? For the outcome hmm This It’s such a good question and such a loaded question because I think outcomes are so personal for any mission driven organization But I would say the the guiding principle for me has been what? Is measurable at the end of the day, that’s really what it has to be grounded in But before you get to the actual metric, I would say don’t Hesitate to be a little aspirational with the outcome because the outputs You know are just very straightforward right? It’s the immediate result of an activity that you undertake and that should be just okay number of people touched or Whatever that metric is outcomes I’d say It helps to do an internal exercise with your team You know people from the program side as well as the operation side and just get everyone’s thoughts on Okay, guys, we will undertake all these activities but what do we aspire to do? what what change do we aspire to see in the world and start blue sky and Then slowly work your way down by asking the questions about. Okay. That’s an outcome We want to see so for example, maybe you train youth and you’ve put a thousand youth through a training program one aspiration would be I want to see all of them get jobs and Then ask how are we going to measure that? What kind of jobs do we want for them? Um You know And if getting creeped is Sorry, hoping to get that and maybe some shouldn’t like a workflow if you will To really boil it down to okay This is what we then think we can collect from them and then you really have to ground it in the hell as Mission-driven organizations, there are I know just a ton of things. We want to know about the people that are ultimately getting benefitted but then we have to be very practical and say you know, we probably can’t take more than 10 to 12 minutes of their time and that that really is I think the average attention span for anyone that’s being asked a survey and so really then getting to the point In those questions making it very very easy for them to answer. Those questions is key and so half of our survey actually of 26 questions half of them are things that we can observe what the surveyor can observe so like we Try to document how many assets they have before and after a job and if you’re interviewing someone in their home That is something you can easily observe and tell yourself without having to really bother the respondent and so I would also advise observable indicators along with some that are easily quantifiable and some in this third bucket that are also Perception based and that’s totally fine too, you know does the respondent feel that this job has helped them and even though that might be hard to quantify if they say yes, and and if they legitimately feel That this has had positive benefit. You can’t deny that and that’s something that should be captured So, I don’t know if that’s helped. I don’t know if that helped to answer your question But I’m certainly happy to talk to people one on one about their Particular models and some ideas for indicators that that might help And I hope this answers your question is well, how do you administer your survey and how often I’m gonna do one more question from Something more here, so oh I think it’ll answer. I need to ask this question to Sutton This is a question from Julia. So I would be interested to know how do you know? Yeah, how do you the list of resulting matrix as well as the methods to measure each of them in particular you recommend any databases to help take this information Hmm so Yeah, I think coming up with the actual metrics can feel like the daunting part of You know putting together an impact management practice and I think some of the best places to start are with the industry standards that are being set So there’s obviously the SDGs right but they are existing at a very high level and then We have also pulled metrics from the iris plus database so you can go to the djinn website and see the catalog of iris plus indicators and they drill down a level further and So for us for example, they do have guidelines around You know measuring increase in income measuring the number of jobs and things like that that we report to and then there are other more granular standards, and actually I can I may have this just I had a few other slides here, it would help answer questions and the one I Guess industry standard index that we have baked into our survey is the PPI the poverty proper index and These are a set of 10 very straightforward very easy to capture questions that Correlate with a person’s poverty level and every country has its own PPI scorecard and There has been a lot of debate around the PPI over the years It’s not perfect by any means But what I love about it is even in a place like India, you know, it’s one country Yes, but it’s so diverse and it it’s often helpful to say Okay we have PPI scores from a group of job holders say in the northeast of India and then we have another project in the south of India and how do we talk about relative poverty scores and so sometimes just assessing scores Against the same ten questions that correspond with poverty levels is a good way of doing a relative comparison and also what I tell my team is if somebody is Scoring really high on this there’s a possibility that they’re not considered extremely poor And so it’s not that we would screen them out. It’s just that we would probably ask more questions to make sure that our businesses are targeting the poorest of the poor and So you can definitely visit poverty index org to get a lot more information than what I’m providing here But we are fans of the PPI. We have a PPI score for all thirteen hundred plus job holders, we’ve surveyed and then what’s what’s wonderful is that every two years when we go back and do another survey of That sample of job holders we can collect their PPI scores then and Compare them to what we had collected two years ago when they had joined those jobs And so this is also very quickly getting to the question about how often we survey We administer a baseline survey at the very beginning when we start Partnership with a with a company and as jobs are being created. We really want to capture Baseline income. What were they doing before and how has that changed? immediately upon getting these jobs and then ideally two years later we would go back and survey a sample of job holders at that business again and That’s when we can look at the change in PPI scores change in income Change in assets and you know do a baseline to mid line comparison But this is one of those indices that we’ve baked in that that has really helped us just glean more information if you will Great thank you, and so just for others to no Impact clouds of blackened backlog has was it 4,000 metrics? Covered as well. So it’s another resources more than 50 standards and from an impact investment just sustainability to businesses outlook and also It’s another source of information In something that you may want to keep in mind that Does bring one of my topic is really? Are those in investors and I think produce honor code is a great example morphometric punishes perspective But what do you think about the current state of? Standards essentially many of them that are seen almost from the Investor centric, so how should one be designing more from the enterprise? Perspective is P P. I said is there some more to that? Well, I think PPI can be part of the answer because to me this was designed very much from the ground up, you know, there’s been a lot of studies done among poor households about What what are the factors of that household that correspond to poverty level, right? and That that’s why I like this I when I think about metrics I just naturally think about bottoms up. What makes sense and so even our surveys They’ve really been designed with our job holder and their day-to-day lives in mind meaning We we really want to understand from them You know what has been their struggle and and so we try not to just Parachute into the field and start firing off questions. We we have a conversation with them first we try to understand what were you doing before, you know to make ends meet and trying to paint a picture for all the different things that they might have been cobbling together and then trying to make sense of that, you know from like an income per day perspective and then also talking to them about Aspirations and in From their perspective. What does it mean to have a better life? We really want them to tell us It’s it’s not from our perspective to say okay. They have to have a better quality of house Or they have to send their children to school We would like all those things to happen. But we we want them to lead and tell us what their priorities are so I I think What needs to happen more and more in the industry and I do see this happening is that practitioners like us? Need to also say okay. This is what we’re hearing directly from the people that Our programs are reaching These are their priorities and then can we start? You know constructing metrics and indicators that capture that feedback better and So upaya is trying to be more and more vocal with this growing base of job holders that we have surveyed, you know, like I said, we have thirteen hundred plus Points of feedback right now, and we’re really hoping to double that In the short-term and so with all this feedback Can we then provide better feedback to the industry to help shape some of the standards that are coming out? I certainly hope so Excellent, so we only have five minutes and still more questions are probably just leap to one more question here and see Whether we can wrap it up from there. And by the way, this is not the end of the Discussion you’re always welcome to share those questions. I’ll be happy to pass on If you feel free if you want to search your email or the contact mechanisms last one question from Lila and others numbers On inclusion of the local talents or pull also or our us including the refugees. I Suspect this may be about the impact dashboard that I promised share with them. I’m not sure so and It’s it’s not clear. We can do move. We can move the question. She resolves also Okay, I’m sorry. I didn’t hear the first part of the question. I just heard numbers on inclusion of local tenants Possibly. I don’t get the question very well. So maybe let’s move to the next one So the KPIs you are using are highly based on previous conditions and current conditions Not targets that you said And I’m sorry animation I didn’t hear that I don’t know if it’s my connection so I heard The KPIs are based on the previous conditions Versus current conditions and then I couldn’t hear you. The next thing is not the targets you said Isn’t it uh-huh, yep so for these KPIs we do have targets internally that we want to make sure we meet so for example with average income increase We really want that to be at least 50 percent something that is sustained over time and that’s why I mean obviously we’re going to have job holders that are coming in below that and Then we try to look at okay if it’s only a 25% increase for example Is it because they just haven’t been on the job very long and they just need more time and if we’re seeing a lot of that like below 50% increase Then we have a discussion with our entrepreneur about what might be happening Certainly over time We want to see those numbers go up and the longer someone is in the job the more that income needs to increase and so 50% is always our goal. We’re usually good about seeing Income increase well above that, but that would be one example of KPI goal or a KPI I guess a standard and For a lot of the others we we do have standards that we want to see them Meeting and so one question on our survey that I haven’t talked about is how much is the household saving? And we want to see and I know this is very ambitious like a hundred percent of our respondents Eventually being able to save we’re not quite there yet I think right now we’re at about at two-thirds who say they do save regularly But that is also a goal that we we hope to see and so baked into all these we do have those internal benchmarks if you will and One goal for us this year is to you know, maybe highlight those on our dashboard So that we’re not just showing what the current measurements are but where we hope they will be and and what some of the What some of the benchmarks ought to be so I hope that answers the question There’s so many questions and thankful to all of you To asking such a great questions to Saatchi and Saatchi so much. Thank you for giving such a insightful and very deep Answers to most all the questions so far. Sorry, we could not get to all of them, but Really? I hope that you will continue to plug in in with our Series on the all about outcome I Would highly encourage you to come to so PAC channel YouTube channel that we shared will be sharing this presentation by email to you And so feel free to look out for that and please sign up to the channel so that we can see the past Webinars in the future updates off together we’re gonna be sharing one video a week So it’s a fantastic resource that you can learn Just short videos like eight minutes from Theory chain to impact study through how to measurement those sort of things So please do join in otherwise, I hope this information this webinar was very useful If you would like to close this Webinar with the closing thought I would appreciate that and thank you so much from supper Maybe you can just give your concluding thoughts Of course, and I’ll try to keep this quick because I know we’re at time. This was a slide. I was hoping to get to but obviously as many of you probably know we we still have Challenges in the impact management space as an industry. We’ve made tremendous progress, I think but as many of you were asking You know selecting the most appropriate metrics and really getting down to that level of granularity I I think we still have work to do and I I do feel it’s up to us practitioners to share What’s working for us and the feedback we’re getting from the field I also hope to see that there are more resources Available to support IM activities. I think sometimes funders don’t make this a priority They want to see the data, but they aren’t always willing to support it I’m seeing glimmers of change there And I think we’ll soon see away of more that are jumping in to support these activities and I would just encourage organizations to Bake these costs into their program budgets because it’s very much a feature of the program It’s not a separate and distinct activity. It can only help your program get better and Then by working with organizations like so packed I am hopeful that we will have widespread access to systems that are just designed to help us better collect and analyze and report out on data So this is where I would love to end and you know leave some thoughts for this group But thank you so much again to so packed. This is such a delight and like I said something I’m very passionate about And in Maish, I think we talked about you know feeling free to share this presentation with anyone that would like it and I know you have my email address. I am happy to share that with anyone that has additional questions Okay, that’s great thank you and I will just summarize and stable stay in touch Thank you so much again Sachi and we’ll be in touch. Thank you. Thank you

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