Lawyer Marketing is Changing: Interviewed By Allison Williams
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Lawyer Marketing is Changing: Interviewed By Allison Williams

Alison Williams here, law firm mentor. I want to welcome you all to the group. You’re in the Law Firm Mentor
Movement Facebook group, and today I have my special guest with me, Andrew Stickel, who’s going to talk
to us about social media marketing. So I’m not going to take up a whole
lot of time giving him an intro. I think most of you probably know who he is, and if you don’t, you’re kind of
living under a rock at this point; because Andy has quite a reputation
online for social media marketing and marketing in general for lawyers,
and what’s unique about him, one of the reasons I wanted to have him in today, is the fact that he actually comes up with
innovative ways of marketing for lawyers so that small law firm owners that are out there and kind of getting their name out for the
first time and really investing in marketing, can make a huge impact in a relatively short
period of time and not with a lot of resources. So with that being said, Andy is going to
talk to us and give us a lot of feedback about what to do with social media,
how we can move the needle. He has a lot of resources
that are available to you. His company is Social Firestarter. It was founded in 2012 and
it’s been around since then, but of course I’m going to let you know
about his closed Facebook group. It is Marketing for Lawyers and he also has
an item that you can opt in for to get tips on how to get clients as a law firm owner. It’s, there you can
opt in to get a tip sheet from him on that. So without further ado, I’m going to just
ask Andy to talk to us a little bit about marketing for lawyers and how we can
move the needle with social media. Thank you Andy for being here. Ah, thanks for having me. Thanks for that great intro. Yeah, so I think that you pretty much nailed it. I try to come up with innovate
marketing strategies for lawyers that most people haven’t heard before. Kind of where I got started – I’ve been doing — I started in marketing back in 2006 I think, when I ran a full-fledged agency and
then I got into marketing attorneys when I started my current
company Social Firestarter. And I currently have about fifty law
firms that I do their marketing for. Most lawyers can relate to this. What I started seeing is that there’s so many when you have a website and when you
have a law firm, you just get inundated with marketing materials from
every marketing agency out there. Every company big or small wants to handle
your Facebook and handle your social media, and handle your SEO and build you a new
website and get you on the first page of Google and sell you leads, and sell you the phone
number 1-800-B-ATTORNEYS.COM and everything else in between, you know? So what I started realizing is that there was
not a lot of really great resources out there that small law firms can use to get themselves
more clients, and marketing’s not difficult. It’s just taking a lot of simple steps and there’s a lot of things that lawyers
used to do or they don’t think about. So that’s kind of where I got started is. I started trying to create this content, more out of frustration that
there was nothing out there, because I only work with fifty clients. I’m not really taking any
more clients at this point just because I can’t handle a hundred clients. I don’t want to stretch myself and I like having a reputation that
I get good results for my clients. So basically I couldn’t really help more than
fifty, and I had a lot of people contacting me. So I started putting all
of this content out there. But you know, I think that moving forward, I think social media is really
what lawyers should be using, and it’s something that lawyers
don’t really understand how to use; how to get clients for their law firms. So yeah, that’s kind of what I’d like to
talk about today and I think it’ll be — I think it’ll be pretty informative
for a lot of people. Yeah, definitely – and you know
it’s interesting that you say that. I think as lawyers, we are probably
one of the laggards of all professions when it comes to changing things up and
doing things that are new and innovative, because we’re such a conservative lot as it is! But you know with social media I think one
of the big misconceptions people have is all you have to do is create a business page and
stick it out there, and you’re quote – “marketing”. Can you talk to us a little bit about how someone
could use their Facebook business page and what they should be doing? Some tips on maximizing their reach? Sure, absolutely. So the mistake that a lot of
people, a lot of lawyers make — and I say that, I always kind of
use the going for home runs. I use a baseball reference. So, if you think about –
there’s a guy named Pete Rose. He’s a really famous baseball player. He is number six all time in runs scored,
and he’s number one all time in singles; but he only hit a hundred and
sixty home runs in his career. So I like to make that reference because
he knew that all he had to do was get on base, and he would basically score runs. So I use that same type of mentality with
law firm marketing because nowadays, people are going for home runs. What happens is – a lawyer will
put out a Facebook ad and it’ll say, “Have you been in a car accident?
Call me today for a free consultation”, or “Have you been arrested? Call me today and I can help you fight your DUI”. But the reality is is that when
you run a Facebook ad, you’re kind of going for a
home run just right out of the gate and that’s not how the internet works anymore. Now — there used to be something
called Three Point Marketing where somebody needed to
have three contacts with a brand before they trusted them
enough to make a purchase. Now it’s something like twenty plus touches with
a brand before they actually trust them enough, before they’ll actually make a
purchase or give them the money or trust them to do anything, you know? So what a lot of lawyers are doing
is they’re trying to hit a home run when they really should just
be going for a single. So instead of trying to get
somebody to see your ad, understand that they need an estate plan, and then understand that you
are right attorney for them and then subsequently hire you with one ad. What you need to do is, you need to basically just
introduce them to the concept of an estate plan, and then follow up with them
over and over and over again; and that’s kind of where it’s really simple to do, but it’s just a concept that a
lot of lawyers they’re not doing it. They’re trying to hit the home run right
away, and then what happens is they — it doesn’t work, and then
they get frustrated with that and then they say Facebook doesn’t
work or social media doesn’t work. It’s not — it’s like social media is a tool. It’s how you use it, you know? So that’s one of the biggest things is that
you have to have a little bit of patience, and it’s a little bit of work. That’s the thing, and what’s tough is — have you ever read The E-Myth?
Have you ever read that book? Oh yeah, absolutely. Good old Michael Gerber. So… yeah, yeah so it kind of goes down to that working on your business vs.
working at your business, you know? And being an attorney especially
when you run a law firm, first of all you’ve got to be a great attorney, but then you’ve also got to be savvy with business
and savvy with HR, and savvy with marketing and all these different things
and sometimes you can’t have it all. Some of these law firms that I talk to,
some of these lawyers that I talk to its kind of do you want to be an attorney
or do you want to be a marketer? Or do you want to be a business owner I should say; because some attorneys that I talk
to they just want to be an attorney. They don’t want to do marketing and
you’ve got to figure out how to make that work because you know where Google is going,
everything social media is the way to go and it takes a little bit of this type of
repetitive contact over and over again. It’s difficult to just hit a home
run right away every time. Yeah. So if you’re recommendation is that people have to have more touch points
in order to really make an impact in sales — Yeah. How is somebody who’s not investing
twenty, thirty, forty thousand dollars a month really able to do that to get all
those touch points out there? Because if you’re just… Sure. if you’re kind of you know in grassroots, maybe you have a couple
hundred thousand dollars a year up to a million dollars a year in revenue, you have enough to be able
to post some pay per click ads. Maybe you have your Facebook page. Maybe you have a marketing
company working with it, but you’re probably not getting twenty
or thirty touch points out there in a month, so how do you drive the needle up
if that’s what you’re working with? Got it. Okay so what you need to do is – there’s three types of traffic
that you can get online. There’s organic traffic — uh, sorry — there’s traffic that you don’t control, and that’s, an example of that is organic
traffic or referral traffic or social shares. So for example, you can’t control,
like you can optimize your website, but you can’t control if Google’s
actually going to put you at number one and send you traffic with organic traffic; same thing with referral traffic. You can ask somebody to give you a link, but you can’t control the fact that they
actually put that link on your website and then someone visits that website, and then clicks on that link
and visits your website. So that’s traffic you don’t control
and then there’s also traffic you control, and that’s traffic like pay per click ads,
Facebook ads, different things like that; and that’s traffic that you can turn on and off. So Google AdWords for example – you can turn on Google AdWords and
start funneling traffic to your website. So the goal is, with everything you’re doing and
the key to making this work without a huge budget, is converting the traffic that you don’t control and the traffic you control
into traffic that you own, and traffic that you own is in
the form of email addresses, addresses like physical addresses
and telephone numbers so you can send text messages
or even get old school and make a phone call if
you actually wanted to do that. So the way you do that is
instead of running an ad saying – “Have you been in a construction accident?
Call me today for a free consultation” – you create some sort of free guide that will
entice a construction worker to download, to want to download, like an eBook or a cheat sheet. I actually like calling things
cheat sheets nowadays. I think it’s the same thing as an eBook. It’s basically a free piece of content, but I think a lot of people are kind of
associating the word “eBook” with like, work. You know? So I know that I personally have a lot of
eBooks sitting in my Downloads folder that I’ve never actually read, but what you do is instead of going for
that home run you go for the singles. So you create a document. Like if you’re targeting
construction accidents. Construction accidents – see if you can
start targeting construction workers. You create a document that’s like – “Four things all construction workers
need to know about job site injuries, whether you’ve been injured or not”. Right? So then, they go to a landing page, they enter
their email address, and now they’ve got, now they’re on your email list and you
can send them an email every single day, and they see your content. And the key to following
up with that email, is that – and this is where a lot of people make mistakes – is you want the emails to be
extremely high value, you know? So like, are you on my email list by any chance? I have a lot of people on my emails. I am on your email list. Okay. So what you’ll notice in my emails is that – one, I send an email every single day, but the content of my email
is extremely high value. It’s not — I don’t sell anything,
I don’t pitch anything. It’s basically, “Here is how to do this
marketing thing for your law firm” or “Here is a sneaky way to get more law clients
using Facebook” or whatever it is, right? So what happens is I send
an email every single day. Every single email that
I send is extremely valuable. It’s all high value content. None of it sells anything, right? But what I’m actually doing, is I’m putting
myself in front of your face every single day, and I am giving you value every single day. So every single time you touch — you see my email and you watch some
of those videos, that’s another touch point. So a lot of people will contact me. What I find is that when people
want to hire me to do their marketing they don’t contact me after the first email. They contact me – and I can see
because I respond to my email, and they say “Hey Andy, can you
help me with my marketing?” I’ll look and it’s like email #35 in my email
sequence or like email #42, you know? So it takes a lot of touch points before
somebody actually trusts you enough to actually want to hire you, you know,
and that’s kind of what’s happening. So if you can just provide value
and just provide pure value, in everything you do just provide value; and each person that you have on your
email list is just another hook in the water. It’s just another line in the water,
another chance to capture somebody that either needs your help themselves or has
a friend or a family needs that needs to help you, but they’re seeing you as the authority because you’re providing value
over and over and over again. So if you do that and then you tie it
together with the Facebook group, where you provide content on a daily
basis and different things like that, then you hit those twenty or
thirty touch points really quickly. You know, I can hit twenty or thirty touchpoints,
and I mean, you’re in my Facebook group. You see my emails. A lot of people see me in a lot of different places. So I can hit twenty/thirty touch points
in a week maybe, you know? But everything I do is high value. I don’t do any hard pitches,
hard sells or anything like that, and that’s the thing that really sets it apart,
and that’s why a lot of people are like, “Well, I don’t want to email people every
single day because I don’t want to spam them”, but what I’ve found is that
you’re only perceived as spam if you’re trying to sell
something over and over again. If you’re just providing value,
people are not going to be upset by that. They’re actually going to miss your emails
when you don’t, when they don’t come. I have heard people say that — I know! How dare you go on vacation! Yeah, yeah. Well actually, no. On vacation, it’ll work. I just had an issue with my Email Responder
where for about ten days I didn’t send any emails and people were emailing me asking
if they were removed from the list or whatever, because they were so accustomed
to getting the emails. So you know, it’s really interesting. The other interesting thing is that it changes,
it changes the viewers’ perception of you. So for example, most
lawyers don’t trust marketers. They don’t like marketers and
you know they’re kind of… they’re very hesitant to talk to marketers. For me, what’s interesting is because I have made myself the authority
on law firm marketing in their eyes – I’m not saying in the world, but in their eyes,
because they see me over and over and over again and I’ve provided so much value – what happens is people contact me, and
my agency is actually on a waiting list right now. We don’t even have, we’re not
even taking new clients at the moment. If we do it’s for very specific things, but what happens is people are actually trying
to sell me on why I should do their marketing, and it’s really interesting
because I’ve had clients that have had that same thing happen to them
also where people are convincing them, “Here’s why you need to work with… here’s why you need to take my case,
you know, because you’re the authority.” It’s like you’re the only option. You’re the best option out there because
you’re the one that they trust, you know? So it’s really, it’s a really cool system,
and it’s all – it’s all using social media. It’s all based on that first touch point
where you run a Facebook ad, they get send to a cheat sheet,
and that gets them in your email list. Then you social or follow up that way. So Andy that’s like a perfect point, because this is something that I talk about a lot
in the Law Firm Mentor Movement and on the page. The idea of becoming the
expert and being the authority. I mean, once you are the authority
people are lining up to get you and if you craft your message in the right way, you can get them to the point where they
are trying to sell you on working with them and not vice versa, and that of course is where — Exactly! you really get to choose
that ideal client for you. Yeah. So one of the things that I want to ask you about
though is this idea about multiple platform, because one thing I hear a
lot out there in the blogosphere about social media marketing is that,
you know, you need to pick a platform. You don’t need to be everywhere
because a lot of times people – when they’re starting this – they create their Facebook page,
they get an IG account, they get on Twitter,
they start posting videos on YouTube, and then they get exhausted and so
instead of being consistently in one place they are inconsistently everywhere
posting little dribs and drabs of information and hoping that somebody sees it
and will court them into a relationship. Can you talk a little about what you recommend
in terms of how many platforms, how frequently? You already talked about email frequently, obviously it should be daily,
but you know beyond that, what should you do actually on the platforms? Okay, so I have a confession. I’m thirty four years old. I think that makes me… does it make me a millennial? I’ve never really known if I’m a millennial or not. I think I’m like right — I think you just past the cut off. Yeah I’m like a year or two old to be a millennial,
but I’m too young to be, what’s the one before me? Gen Z? I don’t know, whatever. Gen X? Gen X, Gen Z, whatever it is. I don’t understand Twitter. I mean I understand it, but I just,
I get overwhelmed when I go to Twitter. So I do very, very, very little on Twitter. Instagram – I am trying my hardest to do
Instagram and it just isn’t working very well. So trying to be consistent doing Instagram
stories and things like that, it doesn’t… I don’t know, I just can’t get it. So my main focus, first of all before I even
consider a platform, I create content, right? So my daily routine is every day I create a piece
of content, and it’s usually in the form of video. The reason I like video is because one, it puts my face and my voice in
front of them and that’s very important, because if you’re just writing a blog post then
you’re not actually becoming the authority unless you have pictures of
yourself all over the blog post; but when somebody watches a video of me,
they’re watching a video of me talking. If you look at my Facebook channel,
my Facebook group, my YouTube channel – everywhere has my picture all over it and
that’s because I want people to see me. I don’t want it to just be a lawyer marketing group. I want them to see me and make me the authority. So that’s my most important
thing is I create a piece of content, and then what I do is I have a team that
syndicates the content everywhere. So I actually do have content on — I’m on Facebook. I’ve got a Facebook group. I’ve got a Facebook page. I’ve got an Instagram account. I’ve got YouTube. I’ve got email. I’m trying to think if there’s anything else. Right now I’m going to add
Twitter in here eventually. I just haven’t done it yet, but what I do
is I create a piece of content and I have a team that then
syndicates it everywhere. So, I only spend maybe five
minutes a day creating content, and then I send the URL, I upload it to Facebook. I do a post, and then I upload it to YouTube,
and then I send the URL from YouTube to my team, and they take care of everything else. They put it on Facebook,
they syndicate it everywhere. They write a blog post. They do video transcripts. They optimize the video in Youtube. They do all that kind of stuff. So it’s not necessarily
about where you distribute or about where you personally distribute. It’s about basically a great
piece of content on a regular basis and then letting your team
syndicate it everywhere. So I think that you need to focus on one
platform that you’re comfortable with. So I’m comfortable with Facebook and YouTube, and if there’s two there to really
focus on right now, I’d say those two. Instagram is going to be the next one and
that’s why I’m forcing myself to figure out how to actually make it work,
because I’m not consistent with it. That’s kind of the problem, but what’s
important is that you really own one platform that you are responsible for
and then the rest of your team, put together a team that can syndicate
everything else and take care of whatever, because there are some people
that don’t use Facebook. You know those people that go on YouTube. I mean, I get found from all over the place. So another thing is podcasts. I actually put a post up today, about an hour ago. I was asking, “Hey, I’m thinking
about doing a podcast”, and I’m trying to figure that out also,
but I just know that the more — It’s like everything else. The more opportunities somebody
has to come in contact with you, and then the more touch points, the more you’re
going to be become the authority, you know? Yeah. But — Yeah, absolutely. Andy one think I do think that you said
that’s critical is the idea that you know, you don’t personally know every platform. Yeah. You feel comfortable with one or two, and then you have a team that
kind of supplements the rest. Yeah. But a lot of the platforms
will allow for cross-posting, and that’s one way that you can
actually expand your reach. Yeah. When I set up my firm Facebook page, we actually automatically have
it linked to our Twitter account. So as soon as I post something on Facebook, it automatically posts in
abbreviated form on Twitter. So I already get two touch
points from the first post. Then Instagram, Facebook and Instagram
are co-owned by the same company, so a lot of your image work you
can put out there in a graphic form. You can also have it cross-posted to Instagram. So you can get three touch
points from the same content. Well the great thing about that is
if you work with a marketing company that’s anywhere near as capable as yours is,
they can take that one piece of content that’s been created and multiply it. So they can take a video and transcribe it. If you go with a company like
you know, you immediately get a quick transcript. You can turn it around and post out the words
on a platform that only allows for words, and if you want a graphic you can do a still shot
of your video and post the graphic on Instagram. So you can immediately take something
that you’ve created and multiply it, and I just think that’s so
critically important for people that aren’t necessarily at the place where
they’re going to invest a lot in their budget. They can take a small amount and
then do something on their own and then really have a much broader reach. Absolutely. Yeah, and that’s what I’m saying. That’s why I focus on one piece of content,
and then I syndicate that content everywhere. Now I think it’s important that
what I do and you can do this, but I actually make sure that we have specific versions of every content
for every different platform. So for example, Facebook, you can
syndicate Facebook and Instagram, but because Instagram is much more
visual and it’s got different you know, you’re not allowed to have links in the
comments and different things like that. What we do is we have specific content
that is actually created from that video for an Instagram post, and that’s a luxury that I have
because I just have a team that’ll do that for me, but the thing is a team also is not that expensive. Most of the people that work
for me are from overseas, and I know that a lot of people
have had bad experiences or maybe they haven’t but they’ve heard
of people that have bad experiences. Most of my workers, most of the VAs
that work for me – virtual assistants – are from the Philippines and
honestly, they do an amazing job. I’ve had, like everywhere
else I’ve had some bad ones, but you can kind of weed through the bad ones, and they do an amazing job and
they syndicate everything for you, and that’s a lifesaver for me because
I spend five minutes creating content and then I’m done, and then they
put it everywhere else, you know? And one thing you were saying with Rev, that’s
actually the exact way that I do my blog posts. So what I do is I’ll send the blog, I’ll send the video
to, then they transcribe the entire thing. Then I send the transcription
to a writer, and I basically just say “Hey, clean this up, and add headers”
and all that kind of stuff, and then we turn that into the blog post. We embed the video at the top of the page, and now I’ve got a video, a blog post
and video that’s searchable by Google. So you know it’s all about repurposing
what you have rather than trying to create a specific blog post and a specific Instagram
and a specific YouTube, you know. It’s one piece of content. Just put it everywhere and be smart about it. Definitely. So for people that are
working with virtual assistants, you know there’s always
that fear, especially lawyers, we’re control freaks, we control everything. Yeah. So you know outsourcing
anything becomes difficult. I have to Yeah. beat people over the head to get them
to outsource their secretarial work, but once you get into the habit and you get
the mindset that “Okay, I’m going to outsource this. I’m going to bring somebody aboard
who’s going to do my social media, and they are going to be putting things out there.” You said earlier that you really
advise people put things out of value. So how can a lawyer — you know, lawyers have their
own concerns about making sure that they’re not giving away legal advice — or being interpreted as giving legal advice
when they’re putting content out there. How do you work with lawyers on making
sure that they are putting out content that’s usable and valuable but
not necessarily the solution. It’s something that’ll lead them to come
into the office to get the actual solution, as opposed to giving it away upfront. Yeah. So, I always tell people concentrate
on the why not necessarily the how. So for example, if you’re a family law attorney
for example, and you’re talking about different… let’s say a child custody issue,
or something like that. Maybe you talk about why it’s
important to have certain things done, but you’re not going to actually
talk about how to go to the court and file this petition and all that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? So it’s basically, you talk about, just talk about — And a lot of time what you can do
is you can tell stories that relate, that basically prove a point
or kind of illustrate a point, and that’ll be value for people, because what most
people don’t realize is that the information that you’ve got in your head about
whatever your practice area is, you’re an expert at whatever
area of thelaw you focus on, right? So if you’re a family law attorney, it’s pretty
safe to say you’re an expert in family law. I mean maybe not legally an
expert, maybe the bar wouldn’t — you know but compared to most people… Yeah, we’re not going to let ourselves out
in places where the bar can find out. We just use it Exactly. amongst ourselves. Exactly. Okay, you know the law very, very well right? You know the procedures, you know things work. You know it really well. The average person that’s
going through a divorce knows — I mean one one thousand
percent of what you know, right? So any information that you have,
even if you don’t think it’s significant, that’s amazing information for
somebody who needed that information. So if — and the example that I can
always use is law firm marketing. Most lawyers that come to me, I’ll tell them–
I gave someone advice the other day about its an immigration attorney, and they were
asking me “How do you target immigration clients?”. I was like, “Well, you just go into Facebook. So if you’re trying to target people
that are from India, for example. Then all you do is you search for
celebrities that are celebrities from India that only people from India are going to like, and you just target people that like
those celebrities”, and it makes sense. You know, so that’s how you target people. So, for me that’s something that is just easy
for me, but the lawyer I was talking to was like, “Oh my god, that is the smartest thing. That’s amazing.” You know what I mean? Another thing is, if you’re
a personal injury attorney, what you can do is location based targeting. So basically you can put the
address of a hospital in, right? And you can say anyone that’s been at
this address within the last seven days, run these personal injury ads to. You know? So it’s like I know that stuff, but some people
that hear that for the first time, they’re amazed. They’re like, “Oh my god, that is so smart. I didn’t even know you could do that.” So you can give those same
types of moments to people that are interested in whatever it is
that you’re talking about, you know? So what works really well is stories,
because people relate to stories. So for example, if you get online and you say “Listen, I want to tell you a story about
something that happened to me today,” and the thing is is that,
the stories don’t have to be true. You know obviously you’re not going to give
out your clients’ information or you know, nothing that’s going to get you in trouble; but you can say something like, you know “So I just left the courthouse,
and we are dealing with a situation where a mother and a father are
fighting over custody of their children, and the mother went on Facebook
and did a whole rant about the father, about all this type of stuff, and he did this,
and he did this, and he did this. So, what do you think happened? The father, who is not my client,
comes in with screenshots, and shows it to the judge, and then the judge said…” and I don’t know if this is a true story or not. I’m pretty sure that you’re not
supposed to be talking on social media if you’re in a court case, you know? So you can say, “So he showed the screenshots
to the judge, and what do you think happened? The judge ruled in their favor because the
wife made a bad decision”, or whatever. So if you give stories like that,
people find value in that. I mean it doesn’t have to be specifically that, but you can just talk about all
kinds of different scenarios. Another one is like if you’re targeting fathers. There’s a misconception amongst family law
that the father is always at a disadvantage when it comes to family law, and as far as I know, every jurisdiction that I’ve heard, each one
that I’ve talked to – that’s not the case. You know, there’s no — I don’t know of any, maybe I’m wrong,
but I don’t know of any areas in this country where the father is at a significant
disadvantage because they’re a father, you know? But there’s a lot of people
that have that false belief. So most attorneys, when someone
comes in for a divorce consultation or a personal injury consultation
or whatever it is, they can probably pinpoint the ten or fifteen
questions that someone’s going to ask, you know? So if you make a list of those questions and you
answer those questions, that’s value right there. If you write down every story that you can
think of that can support those questions and support those answers,
that’s going contact right there. You know, it’s just stuff like that. What’s amazing is that people
just don’t realize how much value and how much information they have in their
head, that people will think, will be amazed by. Like stuff that people — you know, you went to law school for
how many years and you’ve done this. You’ve got all this on the job training. You’ve worked with client after client, you know? So just take that information
and just share it, you know? That’s the easiest way to do it,
is just think about what what people are asking you
and answer those questions. Yeah. Well, you know that’s
interesting that you say that because social media has
really helped a lot with that. I remember when I first
started my child abuse practice, I actually would go all over the state and I,
at some point in time I was out in court so often that when people would call the office and say “Hey, I need to just her a
question about child abuse”, my secretary would say “Alright, I can
schedule you three weeks from Friday,” and they would say “Well, I need an answer like now.” So I just started putting stuff onto
a blog and you know back then, this was the homemade WordPress blog. You know? Just a place to dump stuff, and I remember people started
finding me with the blog, so I said “Ah! Well alright, maybe I can use it for marketing,” and this is like, you know I called
myself an unconscious competent because I didn’t know what I was doing. I was just doing something just to — …and accidentally stumbled into it? Yeah. Yeah. I would like court and I would just brain dump. You know? Like “Oh my god, I left and this client. The judge was so unfair.” You could always twist things around,
you always know how to hide the identifiers. But… Yeah. People really got riled up about it,
and you know you can really — especially with family law. That’s my primary practice area. You can really get people offended by
what families go through, on any side, whether you’re representing moms, dads, and
relatives trying to intervene against parents. If its custody, support,
domestic violence, divorce – you can always just throw something
out there and you can start to create a tribe. Exactly. You know you can get people
enmeshed in your perspective, and that’s one of the reasons why
when we talk about marketing, we really are careful to make sure
you’re telling your story to whomever it is that identifies with your story,
so that you draw in those people. You don’t give everybody a tepid story,
you give one person a really hot story. Exactly, and you know the other thing
that a lot of attorneys worry about and I was guilty of this as well, is they
worry about making things perfect, and what you’ll find is that people don’t care. The information’s what’s important. So like a lot of times I’ll talk to attorneys like “Well, I want to get a good camera”, you know. Audio, I think you definitely need good audio,
but you know you can get cheap audio; but people worry about having the perfect video, the perfect lighting and this kind
of stuff and it’s like just do it. Just get on camera and do it, you know? Even me, I still for a while because okay — So I work, I get up four thirty
in the morning every morning and I work from four thirty until whenever,
but at four thirty in the morning I don’t get up and get dressed and put on a
nice shirt and all that kind of stuff. I get up and I want a t-shirt you know,
because I work from home. So for the longest time, I would get up,
it would be like nine o’clock in the morning, I’m still working, and I hadn’t really like,
you know, put on a nice shirt or anything, and honestly this is more than I normally wear. I normally just wear a t-shirt, We got a special occasion outfit! but for a long time — I got dressed up, I figured I’d look nice
for this interview, but I was worried. I was like you know what,
I need to put a nice shirt on, put a button down or a polo shirt or something on, and then I just stopped doing it
one day and I forgot to do it. I realized in the last like ten videos
I was just wearing a t-shirt and just talking, and I realized that nobody cared, you know? So it’s like what they’re interested in is the
content and the value and all that kind of stuff, and the reality is that people
don’t like perfect people. What do they call perfect people? They call them goody-two-shoes
and all that kind of stuff, you know? They like people that are real
because nobody’s perfect. So if you have character flaws, if you have
all that kind of stuff, it’s great you know? That just makes you more of a real person. It makes you more relatable and
that’s what people like, you know? Nobody’s perfect. Nobody can be perfect, so they’re not going
to follow someone that perceives to be perfect. So that’s just something else. A lot of it’s just do it, and the other thing is,
what I’ve been finding is a lot of times people say “I don’t have time to create content.” I’m not sure if you’ve seen a couple of
the videos that I’ve created recently but I bought a cellphone holder for
my car that clips onto the air vent and I just record videos while I’m driving now. Basically I just drive and I just talk, you know? Don’t try this at home, ladies and gentlemen. Okay, so here’s how I do it. The lawyer in me advises against this! Alright, here’s how I do it. I start the video when I am in the parking lot,
I press record and then I back up and then I just talk, and then I wait until
I am stopped and then I hit “stop”. There you go! Yeah, no I know, I’ve got three kids. I don’t need to be getting killed driving, but
it’s a good way to do it because a lot of people, a lot of people just listen to the radio or
whatever and you know, use that time. I know personally, when I am driving I come
up with all kinds of ideas when I’m driving, and I think a lot of people are like that also just because it’s kind of you’re just sitting
there and you’re kind of zoning out. So you know, use that time to
create content and do marketing. Any time you can figure out, especially
if you’re leaving the courthouse, and like you were saying you do a brain dump. You know what I mean? That’s the perfect time to do it. Definitely. So you know we are a little over time, but
I just want to give people an opportunity. We have some people that have
been posting ‘thumbs up’ and ‘kudos’ and saying that they appreciate the content. We are here today with Andy Stickel. Andy is the founder and
owner of Social Firestarter. He indicated earlier he is not taking clients, but I am sure that there are ways
that he can help work with our lawyers on getting them more value
out of their social media. So I’m going to ask Andy to talk about that. One thing I do want to make sure everybody heard, if they hadn’t seen the video from
the beginning and they just joined us, that Andy does have a giveaway
for you at You can opt in and actually see Andy’s
cheat sheet on marketing tips for lawyers and how to optimize your law firm marketing. Again, that’s, and
of course he does have a closed Facebook group. As you know, you’re here in the Law Firm
Mentor Movement, we give you content, but Andy gives you content
specific to the issue of marketing, which is something a lot
of lawyers want help with. It’s marketing for lawyers,
so if you just go into Facebook groups, do a search, you can get
into marketing for lawyers. You’ll get a lot of contact there. That’s actually how I found Andy. I was looking for marketing. I thought his contact was fresh. His YouTube page is just
chock-full of videos with very, very easy relatable content
that you can use right away. So Andy why don’t you tell us
as we’re winding down here, how can you can help lawyers, if your
company is doing anything right now, if you’re at capacity maybe
somebody on your team could help? Or if not, maybe you can give some
guidance to our listeners as to what they can do to improve their marketing. Sure. So the first thing to do is join
my closed Facebook group, because everything that I create
goes into that group first and actually the easiest way to join it,
if you just search, go to Facebook and search ‘lawyer marketing’
and you’ll see it right there. It’s just called lawyer
marketing, it’s really simple. So join that group, send a request. I’ll let you in the group, and then
if you go to, you can download my free cheat sheet. The cheat sheet is called “Three Secrets To
Getting More Law Clients Using Social Media.” So basically what that is is that’s actually
kind of an overview, a step-by-step guide that tells the strategy that I use for my clients
on how to get more clients using social media, and it’s kind of a foolproof
strategy that works really well. It’ll also get you on my email list. So you’ll get daily updates from me
and I try to practice what I preach. I try to do nothing, provide nothing
but pure value in all of my content. I think I do a good job with that, hopefully I do. I absolutely agree with you. Yeah, so for my law firm — sorry, not my law firm – my marketing agency, we are at capacity right now. We have a waiting list
if you’re interested in that, but I’m actually about to do a beta coaching
course where I am actually going to work with ten lawyers for six weeks and
I’m going to create a course that actually walks you through step-by-step and basically does kind of the hand holding
of how to get law clients using social media. It’s basically a step-by-step walk through course. I’ve only got one or two spots
available that are left in that. So if you are interested, send me a message
and I can get you in that course as well. But yeah other than that,
just check on my Facebook group. That’s the best place to find me. Yeah, and Andrew where would people
if they’re interested in your beta course, where would they be able to reach out to you
so that they can grab one of those last two slots? Well you can send me an email. [email protected], or just join my
Facebook group and you’ll see me all over there. Just join and send me a message. That’s probably the easiest way to do it. Alright great, well I thought
the giveaway for today was actually going to be at
the, but I’m hearing — Oh, it is! Well it is, but it’s also the fact that you
have this beta testing that you’re doing, coaching lawyers on social media marketing. So for anybody that’s interested
in working with Andy, unfortunately as he said
his company is at capacity. I think that’s a great problem to have,
and he’s such a creative guy that he’s out there doing other things
so that he can expand his reach, help more lawyers with their marketing. So we thank him for giving us his time today. We got a lot of great topics, a lot of great content on what to do today to be
able to improve your social media marketing. So everyone thank you for coming to the group. Thank you Andy for coming to give us your Thanks for having me. time and value. And again for anyone that’s interested, it’s Marketing for Lawyers is
Andy’s Facebook group. Please join his group. Opt in at,
and Social Firestarter is his website. You know, he’s full right now with clients but maybe you get on that waitlist
and get some value pretty soon. Alright, everyone thank you. Have a great day. Thanks.