One Definition of Product Marketing | Product Marketing Summit
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One Definition of Product Marketing | Product Marketing Summit


I am delighted to be in a room
full of product marketers I hope everybody is
a product market. But we’ll get into
that in a second because I feel like this
shouldn’t be like PM. It should be like product
marketer anonymous like I’m Jim. It’s been 12 days since I’ve
changed the buyer personas. We should all
introduce ourselves. No, seriously, there
is a group of us out here that I think we’re just
underrepresented in the world. And this presentation for me
is the way that I communicate. What product marketing does
to executives to my team. When I go through the
hiring process with people because I just
feel like it’s one of these misunderstood acumen
within an organization. And so I came up
with a framework that’s what we do in
product marketing right. So I think it’s
time that we start marketing ourselves right. Because I just feel as. As such, we are misunderstood. That said, this was
my calendar today. This is my calendar today. What you’ll notice is there’s
no like travel time to Brooklyn. There’s no presentation. So I have to take Nathan
who organized this for inviting me to come here. But I didn’t get
invited to speak until yesterday at about
noon and my calendar yesterday basically looked
like this as well right. You’ve all seen this
calendar before. So I kind of started on these
sides around 6 PM last night. So forgive the there
they’re kind of plain they’re not my typical
like more exciting side. I don’t even have a template. So you’re product marketers. There’s no marketing
in this other than this is a concept
that I’ve come up with over the past
couple of years to help explain these things. All the content that I have. I’d like to expose to everybody. And I would encourage
everybody here to expose it to each other. This slide deck will be
available on if you DME or you you email me or you
connect with me on LinkedIn. I have a blog post
that’s about this. So this isn’t like I came up
with a concept and said, great. I’m going to present tomorrow. This is something
that I’ve actually blogged about and thought
about for a long time. So those are my caveats. If I say the wrong things
on the wrong slides I’ve never given
this presentation. So I will start with that. So my I am v.p. of
product marketing a company called cockroach labs. People love and hate the
name they never forget it. We are a database company
that’s located here at here in New York City. We are a database that can
survive every evolution. And as people
evolve to the cloud. They need to land
their data in the cloud along with their applications. Well, we have a database that
will evolve from legacy systems into the new. And you just can’t kill it. So I love the name personally
because I think it actually is a great brand for us. But I’m also a venture
partner at a small v.c. firm that’s based in San Francisco
called OS X capital. We focus on open source software
and taking open source projects and building companies
around those. I’m a developer turned
marketer a long time ago. I have a computer
engineering undergrad, I coded for a very long time. But I was always
the person that was on those teams that had to
get up and explain things to people. So I very naturally kind
of gravitated towards I was a product manager. But now I was a horrible
product manager. I was really good at
getting up and talking. So they put me in
front of people I ended up becoming a product
marketer because you know for me in my heart
telling stories is what we do as product marketers. I think you just saw the
last two conversations. You know if it’s
through emails talking to people about their
issues in a very private way or it’s through pricing. That is a value conversation. And I think everything we
do is about telling a story and knowing that in
here in our hearts. I believe allows us to
tell really great stories. And so as a developer,
of course I’m doing product marketing in
tech and around a database, but I know it well right. I’m also a startup aholic. So again, on the other side
of this is I work in startups. That’s all I do. This is my eighth
startup in a row. Either I’m a glutton
for punishment or it’s the only
place I can actually be I’ve only worked
for a public company once it was because the company. I was at actually
was fortunate enough to go through that process
of going through an IPO. I lasted two months. I’m not a large company person. So again, finding your
home finding where you belong as a product marketer. I feel is incredibly
important because if you could tell the story from
here, it’s going to make a whole lot more sense. And then finally, I’m a product
mark and I’m proud of it. I hope I’ve kind
of expressed that. So far. All right. So I did want to. So again, when you get tasked
with giving a presentation, the next day you
think like, OK, great. How can I fill some
time filling time. Audience research. So let’s do a poll. Actually it’s
persona development because you’re
product marketers. So how many people
here work at a startup. One, 2, three. It’s about 30% 25% OK, great. Cool how many people work
at public company, not. This not balance out. I guess there’s a in-between
place or people are shy and we’ll get back to that. How many of you are
in B2B marketing. OK that will do well. So this should be the product
marketers anonymous obviously. And then how. OK So for this one. Let’s have everybody stand up
because you’ve all been set, and you’re going to go on
a coffee break every stand. So there’s the interactive
part of my presentation again. This is just filling. So how many people here
identify as a product. And if you identify as a product
marketer stay standing if you don’t, please sit back down. All right. This is good. This is good. OK How many people here. And by vote feel that
product marketing is one of the most strategic
components in an organization. If you don’t sit down. Is it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now should be the whole
the other question. We all know that
answer everybody is standing under that. And I say it’s one
of right because I think where we sit is
the confluence of so many different things in
an organization right. And so if you disagree with
this statement please sit down. OK This is great. So Dave this was our very first
conversation this morning. So every single person I know
that does product marketing feels they are
misunderstood period. It is absolutely that way. So give each other. Now, I’m not going to say
it is a support group. OK You can sit down again. Thank you so much. But it’s true. We are a understood concept. Absolutely And I have struggled
with this my entire career in explaining these
things to people. I always my favorite
one actually explain these things
to people always becomes a complex topic for me. So what I’m going to
go through right now is a framework that I use to
explain to people what we do. This isn’t like so
Axel are you still in the room actually
had an awesome side would like all that stuff. We do. Right like that side with
I had like 80 things on it. I love that thing. Oh my god. I love it because it shows
like basically the depth. People can understand it
though if you aren’t a product marketer right. Our days are full we
have a lot of stuff. So this is more of a high level
kind of understand what is. So I feel when I took
a step back and said, OK, why are we misunderstood. Number one, I think product
management product marketing there is a lot of overlap. I will come back to
that in a minute. There is this emergence of
content marketing, which you know I’m a product marketer. So I was kind of just think. OK that’s me with
my writing head on. And so where does
content marketing fit and where does product marketing
fit in your organization. Each organization
is different right. Every every face looks
different in every face of an organization is
going to look different. So that’s really,
really key here. And that comes back to
this kind of the whole size and stage of a company is
radically important as well. And I use it as a key
point because what I’m going to talk
about right now is my understanding
of product marketing how I communicate this up again. Let’s go back to who I was. I didn’t do that because
I wanted to show off why I’m guys I I am
a startup person, and I am in tech that
is going to dictate how I think about
marketing and how I think about product
marketing how it fits in the overall organization. I can’t even imagine given a
pricing are you kidding me. No way. But that’s the stage
of the company. I mean. Right depending on where you
are what you are in your org. That’s what really
dictates who owns what historical expectations. If you talk to somebody
from Microsoft. They have like these crazy
different titles product manager. I think is actually
product marketing right. I think so. Like there’s this
terminology thing too. It’s like you know
like we hurt ourselves by calling our things ourselves
the wrong name sometimes. Every industry is different. I kind of spoke to that. And then I feel the
most important part about defining product marketing
and in your organization, either as your team
or as an individual comes back to the people
and the experience that are in your team and around it. Because sometimes there’s
people who are just that great. And they’re on an adjacent team. And you know what they should
own certain things I just gave you my card. You know, I feel really
passionate about pricing. I’ve given up pricing a couple
of different times in my career because that was just somebody
who really understood it. And they trusted me to be
an input into that process. Right And so it just
depends ultimately on who you are as an
organization that said, oh, no oh no, don’t do that. OK, great please work. OK That’s a redheaded
stepchild I’m sorry. That’s close. I get OK. So what’s helped me is this
broader definition right. And so if I could think
about what we do as marketers there’s going to be one
cytokine of pulls it all. That’s my Twitter slide,
so I’m product marketing is the process of building and
delivering a core narrative. There’s not a wasted word there. They all mean
something process to me is that this is never done. What we do is never done. We may create
something one week. Like I said, Jim, I changed
my buyer persona in 12 days. These things change. We iterate over time. We learn. We gain insight from
all the different parts of the organization. It is ultimately
definitely a process. The what did you call Dave. The one offs, the. The SMEs the. I need this or whatever
like these people as I get this thing. Yeah, yeah. You need it. Yeah, I just think we’re just
like this like service org you know. Yeah but there’s a lot going on. And I want to I want
to talk to that. But it is really about
delivering this core narrative. So I want to start there. What we do is as marketers
to me at the heart is really two things we build
a story and we tell a story. We’re storytellers
we build a narrative. We go out there and we
tell this to the market or we tell this to our
internal stakeholders right. And that’s pretty
much to me kind of a summary of what we do. But ultimately, I feel it
is the most strategic part of an organization right. If we have clearly
articulated story. We’ll take over markets write
the company’s story to me is the company strategy. So this is Ben Horowitz. He’s a partner at
Andreessen Horowitz. This is a quote of his
that was in Forbes magazine or whatever Forbes online
a couple of years ago, you could look up and Ben’s
Ben’s really phenomenal. There’s another CEO
his name is Dave Janet. He’s the CEO of a company
called Ohashi corp. that’s out in San Francisco. And I worked for the
pleasure and the honor of working with this man. But he didn’t fully
believe that marketing drives the entire strategy
of the organization. And I can’t even like
agree any more than 100% I wish I could go 120
percent especially in today’s markets especially
well, at least in tech right. Like in tech are buyers
touch our software before we even talk to them. What is that process. That’s there on
our website buyers expect the personal
touch and the experience of basically the consumer
experience in an enterprise B2B. That means they
are touching you. They know all about you
before you even get to them. And to me the product marketer
is the critical linchpin in that new conversation
like today, more than ever, we are more important
than anything. And so the fact that there
was only like hundreds of us in the room. I expect this whole
kind of field. And this whole acumen of product
marketing to grow over time. There’s lots of people
talking about startup where like the most important
part of the organization is product market. I think it’s kind
of a known fact because we can
actually reach down understand what you want to say
and translate it because that’s ultimately what we are. We’re translators right. If it’s English to Italian
well it’s tech to English is what we do right. And in that narrative to me is
like the most important part of any company. And that’s I love doing
this with small companies. So So when we build
out a message. I always think about a
message as kind of you know head, heart and wallet. Why do people buy. It’s really kind of one
of three different things. And I feel if we
hit organizations or we hit our buyers in the
buying process across the y try by process with the right
message at the right time we’ll be really effective
about actually selling to these people right. So I always start with
the head because you know that is why people
actually get interested in you in the first place. I feel. And that’s your
audience message that’s like why do they
even need this thing. Right which is really critical. The second is and usually
people start with the product. They start with the wallet. I think, which I
find a big mistake like I talked to a
lot of developers and these developers think
like this little widget they created is really cool
and they’re like, oh my god, what is going to be awesome. But they have no idea why
they need that thing right. And so starting with
product in the startup world is basically the biggest mistake
they could possibly make. But they can’t think
about the audience message why is somebody
thinking about this. And then the lost art to me
is these are the top one. It’s the heart right. Why are we sitting in this room
is because we actually all feel like this is a community. Why did I like you when
I first met you really just like you know there
was like a natural kind of personality right. And the personality of the
company, which you work is critical in
that sales process. And this isn’t like your
internal like aim high or commit to excellence like
the internal you know, hey, that’s on your
career page right. This thing about us like,
why are we in this business. Why do we do this right. And so we basically build this
out and every company I’ve ever have like the layer cake for
every single company I’ve been I save them
actually, I have one deck that just goes
through these whole things. But we basically
develop this stuff. And then incorporate
into an overall theme and so this is my current
cake at cockroach. It’s kind of sounds weird. I think of it. But it was like 11 15 last
night when I did this one. You know at the comedy. Let’s just start from
an audience point of view, what we have
is we have a database that evolves with your
business and organizations today are going through
the process of moving their applications
through the cloud. They’re moving
these applications to cloud their one third
layer in this new space. They think it’s great. But ultimately, they have to
actually move their database as well. And databases from legacy
worlds don’t actually migrate to the cloud very well. So what we’ve done is we’ve
architected a database from the ground up that
basically accommodates all these applications
in the cloud. Why do people do this. Audience message they
want to modernize. They want to actually move
from the old to the new. They have a cloud strategy. Net new. Oh their cloud people. They just actually want to build
new applications in the cloud. The third one is future
data architecture. I’m working on the sentiment
of the person being like, oh my god, I need
to be in the future. People love the future. They love the modern
night two companies ago, I was at a company
called Horton. Funny enough. The third one was actually
just modern data architecture. I just couldn’t use it again. I just felt it
was kind of cheap. But I got to the heart
of what we’re doing. And then I say, oh, great. Yeah It’s distributed SQL. It fits this new world. It’s entered it has all
the abilities of security and reliability that you
need and it’s cloud native. Right it’s going to work in this
new environment you live in. Those are two different levels. And then finally, why
did they buy from us. Well, our CEO and
the founders are just this incredible group of
people that came out of Google. They’re just experts
at this stuff. They’re awesome. And we’re involved in our
approach right in every way that you think
about our company. We have a you know it’s
cool we have on Fridays, we have some called flex Friday. You can work on
things outside of work like it’s kind of like
a four day workweek but I think Fridays
as you just catch up. That’s evolved. Right And so
there’s lots of ways the then and that’s thinking
that’s not just our database kind of aligns with that. But that’s us as
an organization. Why do people want
to work there. Why do you want to
buy from these people. And then finally,
we are definitely kind of looking looking forward
as opposed to around and back. But I just give
that as an example, the one slide about
what my company does as an example of kind of
how that narrative plays out. And once you have these kind
of nine pieces in place. I like threes. So three layers three
across three up. You know I’ll publish
this to the salespeople and talk about alignment right. Simple straightforward
layer cake that they can actually
go to at any time. And if they can memorize
three things on each level and understand where they’re at. They can actually do
this this matrix right. So it’s really critical. You just gain alignment
across the org actually helps up
the to actually help people understand what we do. So product marketing is not
just building that story. It’s also telling the story. So I like to think
of shared frameworks as a critical component of the
way that we do our business. I typically we’ll talk about
on top of this narrative. These four use cases kind of
translating to the audience message honestly, the stuff that
I just kind of talked about. It’s kind of I just
pull it up because I think it’s important to talk
through customer information. How many people think customer
information is building a case study by raising nobody. It isn’t. It’s ultimately how we
actually distribute that thing. Right but I believe
product marketing to be in charge of all
this product information, we should treat it as a
database and sales force or wherever you want to do that. That’s why I like to do it. And we use it down funnel right. So into our sales team to
teach them how to sell. But we use it up funnel
as well to build out use case studies and everything
we put on the external web right. But central collection
of that information is really critical shared
framework and shape function competitive. Absolutely We have
battle cards that go down funnel, we have Harvey
ball comparison sheets that go up funnel right
to show buyers of y And then personas
which I can I could talk for like a
day on personas I could talk on a day on like
all these things are really important right. So there’s these
shared frameworks and then we use these
shared frameworks and lots of different ways right. We tell a story through
external channels through a bunch of
different things. I loved Axel slide again. It had lots of
things that we do. But I like to actually
tease these things out into the two sides when I’m
speaking about what we do. Again, this is a general. And I use one around my
definition of definition because it’s just my definition. We all have our own. But there’s lots of
things we do right. We typically on the website. We do these competitive
case studies we do programs. We are partner to the manager
and they run programs right. But our sales place
should actually match our programs right. And if we tackle that
audience message again, this is where we
gain this alignment. We get the audience
message right. We can actually use that
same thing o modernization. Well and demand
Gen cockroach labs I have an entire modernization
campaign going on because it’s how our buyers
by and by the time people get to an MQTT l and
we’re actually having a first meeting with them. We actually understand
now because this campaign is what they responded
to that bottom of funnel and first meeting. I’m telling the salespeople
hit monetization right because we’ve run the same
programs up the funnel as we’re doing down the funnel
in R1 to one conversations as well. So it’s like that that framework
that critical alignment between the two sides. I feel is just really,
really important. Then Internally we talk about
these things at length as well. You know the pitch
deck look at it. That is the main point
in which you actually align people in terms
of what you do you you own it like there’s
no product management thing in here. This isn’t about a product. Like I said, this is a bigger
layer cake message right. Where are people coming from. What are their problems. Introduce your product. Why is it a value from. And then talk about competition
or whatever that last step is. Right that’s a pretty
simple path through a story that we can all go through. Right but you own it. And we use these things
in lots of different ways. I also believe like we are
a key piece of the reporting analytics typically reporting
is owned by demand Jan or marketing ops. I feel that product marketing
is a key piece of that as well. Again just understanding
up funnel and down funnel is really important for me. And then I just I
can’t say anymore. I think pricing is a
valuable conversation. I believe it. It belongs to product marketing. And so I use basically
I I talked a bit. So this is where I built
the slides last night. I got ahead of myself. The shared frameworks are
really great because it actually creates this up and
down funnel alignment. I think it’s really
important to think through. So this is my one slide. If you want to take a picture. No, it’s fine. But if you want to
tweet something out. This is kind of
the one thing I use to describe what
product marketing is to people you know it’s the
simple understanding what it is. And then look at
you tell a story through external channels
and internal channels. So that’s me I’m at James,
if you want the slides or they aren’t whatever just
DME I’m happy to share anything with anybody. So how does this
work when you have various different
organization right. So OK. Content Marketing comes in and
there are a different group. Great OK, well you still own
a whole bunch of stuff, right. And you’re still
driving the way customer info is used because you have
these frameworks you’re still involved there. And off running case
studies without information full information
you’re still involved and that sort of thing. So some of these things
start to grow out. Right when you have addition
of a strong demand Gen resource I’m happy to give
up certain things because there’s alignment. And there’s trust between the
two sides of the organization. What you have is great. And then finally, there’s like
there’s a solid product margin product management. And it’s wholly other bs. And so it’s kind of when I
talk up to executives or kind of within the team like this
kind of way I talk about it. But ultimately, the
pragmatic framework, which I was first
introduced to Cashman 20 years now Dave, you know
like that felt like I get yeah, I can age myself. I’m gray in the beard. I had a pager that
I was I’m that old. There’s this the framework
works man like this thing works. And it helps people. And so when I try to align
product management with product marketing. I basically start this thing. I just turn it all gray
and say, OK, but what do we do it like
who’s doing what here. All right. And so this framework also
is a really useful framework to actually help the internal
conversation between two stakeholders. I don’t use this
typically with executives or kind of people around us that
make my higher level framework. It kind of abstracts
this stuff out. But product managers
get this stuff, right. And so again, it’s
just that this is a you know you can
actually edit this slide and use the I read
it as a table. So it’s kind of easy to do. I also customize this. This doesn’t even
look like there is a there’s a lot
of new boxes on here from the pragmatic framework. But thank you too
pragmatic for this. Hasn’t changed a whole
lot in a lot of years. And it actually kind of works. And I some of the stuff
Dave’s going to talked about kind of balances out on. So again, why are
we misunderstood. You know to me ultimately,
every organization is different. It’s a different fingerprint
across everywhere. And then why does
any of this matter that I’m talking to you
about other than basically I’m catering to a crowd
of product marketers. Right like if you guys
don’t like, come on. I just like my crowd my people. So alter ultimately,
I find alignment and and more importantly
coverage is just super critical especially and. Like I said, I’m kind of
a more startup person. So like just helping
founders understand that look at these
concepts that you’re going to have to do
as an organization. And I use the framework to show
that to people they’re like, yes, we need that. And so they’re going to hire
somebody for product marketing or marketing or demand Gen
or whatever that is you’ve got to cover these functions
in your organization. Otherwise something
falls just doesn’t get done when something doesn’t
get done in a small emerging company. It fails. Right So I think number
one, it’s this coverage. Setting the right expectations. It’s critical. Again, how do people measure. You know I love the
question like, hey, what’s your success metric
for product marketing revenue. It is you know revenue. But this is all the stuff we do. Right So another critical piece
and how you measure your teams. And then finally, I
just I always navel gaze at the own team. And I see it we have
and this kind of gives me a higher level
sense of where we’re good and where we’re
bad on teams, you know you’ve got a team of four
to five product marketers each of them doing different things. There is always something
that you’re kind of looking at you’re like, man. How do we actually improve
that piece of the Oregon when you’re lucky enough
to get the head count. And you can go out and buy it. You can hire understanding kind
of the bigger picture you know rocks that you can move around. I always feel really,
really important. I always come back
to the framework to help you understand it. So I found this graphic. This morning drove me. I feel like this is my
life like I can’t handle things that are misaligned. But anyway, I’ll step back. So So with that,
I’ll stop talking. I don’t know how
long I went Dave. But again, I wasn’t able
to time this thing out. Thank you, everybody. But I’m happy to take any
questions is really high level stuff. All right. Question I think
we’re kind of on. I would be. So the question is, if
you’re being a B or B to C just having people who
understand that that curriculum is that important. Absolutely I think the to me. Well makes me like, OK. I like what I do. What makes me like what I do
is I actually get the tech. And you know what
I was a developer and I am an advocate
for the developer. I’m like you guys what
you’re doing is really cool. You just need to sell it. So if it’s an app. That’s the health care app
you’re into health care. It’s cool like you’re into that
thing like finding your mojo and finding your thing is where
you’re going to fit very well. And so as a manager,
I always look for people that have experience
kind of in my field or very, very closely adjacent. I just find it critical. One tangent on that, though,
is I find it a mistake to actually elevate certain
people that haven’t been through the kind of the
process as a junior person to come over from,
like a developer turned product marketer. That’s a I’m happy I
made that transition. It’s not always easy, but I
think there’s traits in people that you can look for
that will ultimately make them good product marketers. That’s another blog post. I wrote I think a
lot about this too. It’s I just I just
believe product marketers need to be passionate
absolutely they. You’re selling you’re
the spokesperson you’re developing that story. You’ve got to be in. It’s intelligence. I’m sorry, but you guys are
all some of the smartest people in your organizations. I don’t say that to
pander you are you get it. You understand what’s
going on in that product. And that’s part of like
understanding here what you know what it is, right. Because you got to
you’ve got to get it. But I think number
one, it’s humility. You know if you can’t say you’re
wrong or you can’t listen, it just you’re just not
a good product market. And sometimes like people who
come from more technical sides. They’re right all the time
and they can’t listen, we’re a little bit. We’re loose. Right So absolutely. I’m so sorry. I’m sorry. I’m back. Oh yeah. Yeah, that is a really
wonderful question. So weird is product
management drop off and product marketing
begin for a core narrative. And honestly, they their
input in my opinion and the organizations. I work their input because
I think ultimately, this the layer cake. Like they don’t understand like
this stuff about the company, the heart like that. So that’s an emotional
reason somebody buys right. Like the audience
message at a very rarely do you get a product manager
really gets like that. They get the user story like
how they’re using the product. They don’t get
the buyer journey. The buyer journey is
somewhat emotional and product marketers are
emotional people we get it. That’s where the
passion comes out. And so I think
that’s where I always have conversations between
product management myself around kind of where we where
we kind of let up and take over its partnership though
like there’s like one. Yeah, I guess the reason I like
startups is because it ends up being a partnership
across the board isn’t like I’m not
fighting internally for resources for anybody ever. We’re just we’re just
there working together, and they know what I can give. And so if you come to the
table in any organization with a framework
they’ll love you. So Nate Stuart who runs product
management at cockroach labs. He’s like Jim, you started
two weeks like houses work. I used a pragmatic
marketing framework. I was like, OK, what
do you own like what. How do we do this right. You come with framework
because you actually understand like this is
how people do things. It helps tremendously. There is no like black
and white answer on that. And I love Northwestern so
as if the partnership isn’t doing that participation
rely on what is a good demand team look like. I just think GSD like
they are the ultimate leg. They keep me on point like my
damn engine team right now. We manages me through
astana it’s great. Like it’s they think they
project manage me it’s awesome like, I’m so happy because
otherwise, I’m just like narratives great man
like, no, no man that’s got to be used in a webinar
and an abstract and I was like, I am a I’m a service to them. I think. But it’s a partnership right
because I’m also helping them think through like, OK, great. This campaign is modernization. What does that look
like they own it. And typically they have some
good experience in the field so they know what
the buyer looks like. Which I think is
always really good. But like the number one trait
for me for demand generation is they are just it’s GST. It’s get stuff done to me. But there is no answer it
depends on your org I think. So following up on
that collaboration. How much does it matter. How does freedom work. It is about more than yeah. So the question
is you know where should product marketing
report to is it CPO is it CMO IM
paraphrasing and doesn’t matter a you know I think it
matters because ultimately, I think it’s going to
end up forcing kind of what you are aligned with. And if it comes back to the
redheaded stepchild side. It just depends on your
organization, what’s right. And the people that
are around you. I know that’s a super
like lame answer, but it ends up being kind
of like it’s organizational. A lot of times it’s
historical period My my personal preference
again, the reason I like startups is I can
actually get in and say, this is what you
want for long term longevity of your organization. It is absolutely a marketing
role in my opinion. Like there is not even a
question like because we are basically the translator
between the buyer journey and the product like and
how salespeople sell it, we own enablement with
sales enablement or again, the sales thing like, OK, great. Like set meetings right. We on that story. You know we drive, basically the
strategy of the organization. Again, that’s kind of the
smaller company thing though. So my done day was at the time. Right great. All right. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it.

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