Why search engine marketers must become video marketers: Q&A with David Rodnitzky, 3Q Digital
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Why search engine marketers must become video marketers: Q&A with David Rodnitzky, 3Q Digital



hi everyone thanks for tuning in today I'm Bethany Poole the editor in chief think with Google and we're back here backstage at Google marketing live at the San Jose Convention Center and I'm joined today by David Radetzky the CEO of 3q thanks for being here today David Anthony it's great to be here um let's start out by just telling the audience a little bit about 3q and what you guys do absolutely so 3q is the world's greatest digital agency we really are we are a digital agency we do a lot of advertising on Google for our clients very performance driven globally we spend about a billion dollars a year for our clients Google's our biggest partner and we have offices across the US and we're invading Europe and Asia wonderful what's great to have you here and have your expertise and I'd like to kick off by talking about the article that you recently wrote for think with Google you talked about performance marketers and how for a long time they've really shied away from video marketing and why is that yeah I think there are a couple reasons I think number one is that video advertising seems really scary from a creative perspective a lot of performance marketers are used to text-based ads or banner ads and video seems like something that just requires a lot more work and frankly a lot more cost that's number one I think the second issue is the metrics performance markers are used to very measurable metrics for lack of a better term so things like click-through rate and conversion rate and with video I think there is a area of measurement that's a little bit little bit more murky or if you want to use technical terms is more probabilistic than deterministic and so there's a there's we can talk about this later but there's a little bit of a need for performance marketers to sort of open their willingness to accept less less concrete metrics then I think the third thing is I call it I kind of called the marshmallow test where their performance markers are used to instant gratification there you to spending a couple dollars and getting $3 back in a week or two and I don't think that's the way that video marketing really works I think it is a more of a long-term investment I think the ROI is there but it has to be measured it in different a different way and and the expectations of the advertiser have to be different and I love what you say in your piece you have a really strong point of view about performance marketers who are not investing in video or making a career limiting decision so why have you guys started to pivot towards video and and sort of why is why do you believe so strongly that that is the way that things need to go yeah I would say that at a very high level the reason is that you have to go where the customers are and you know video is big is really becoming the leading format of communication on the Internet and that's for a lot of reasons but I think probably a primary reason is just broadband speeds and the the ability to very quickly and affordably upload and consume video you know Google likes to say that YouTube is the second biggest search engine and I'm sure that's true so as a marketer if you just decide oh I'm just gonna focus on search or I'm just gonna focus on social you know this this giant behemoth of video which gets whatever it is hundred hours of new material every second and billions of views I just don't think that's important to me you're gonna find over time that your customers or your company that you're working for it's going to start asking well why are you ignoring this huge opportunity if you can't come up with a good answer then I do think it's a career limiting decision and for some of your clients you guys have begun to make the shift with really strong positive results can you about those yeah I mean we've got different types of clients obviously but I think for example one of the clients that I mentioned in the article was a company called curiosity stream which is a over the top streaming subscription which has fantastic educational content I was looking at some of their talking yeah it's amazing I mean I'm a subscriber for my kids and you can watch like these exclusive nature videos and when it's very affordable too and so what we did with them was we promoting their content on YouTube and we had good success and we also have subsequently found that you know YouTube is changing some of the format of thereat to allow for more granularity again it's stuff that performance markers are used to things like first-party data things like optimizing for a certain conversion metric so in the case of YouTube and I'm not the world's most technical a YouTube person but I would say you know the true view for action layered with customer match that sort of experience has enabled us to significantly increase conversions that are reduced CPA so for comfort for companies like curiosity stream we see performance that's very analogous to what we would see from a CPA perspective on an AdWords campaign so it's not just brand marketing it's full final absolutely not marketers are still I'm sure that Oh for those that are they're just now tuning in Bethany pool from think with Google and I'm sitting here with David Radetzky the CEO of 3q and we're talking about the shift that performance marketers need to make to video marketing and as David just mentioned that it is a full funnel full funnel product now yeah um I know marketers still have particularly performance marketers still have reservations what do you think what do you think the biggest reservations are and how would you suggest they overcome them I do think I'll go back to what I said earlier I think reservation number one is the cost of creative and so you know I think we all grew up in this world where we see a TV commercial and we just assume it cost like a million dollars to produce and absolutely there are creatives on YouTube that in some cases are actually TV commercials that are we cut in other cases they're they're ads that are created just for YouTube that are costing hundreds of thousands of dollars but the truth is that there are a lot of ways to do creative affordably I mean one of the one of the ones that you'll see a lot is sort of the animated how-to videos and essentially there is no human involved it's just a it's a cartoon or its some sort of graphic and you can get those created very affordably you know less than a thousand dollars I don't know the exact term but YouTube has a solution I think the director thank you the director yeah I'm bad at plugging your products but that's my job that's your job alright but you can you can have YouTube help you with those so so I think creative is a barrier people concerned about that's coming down and then like I said I think the other thing is that we've been trained to think that everything needs to be a cost per acquisition and it needs to be measurable in a couple days or maybe a month and I really think that YouTube requires a different type of measurement and it is a type of measurement that is going to make performance marketers nervous because it isn't going to be as precise and that's something that we also to come to grips with but at the end of the day as amazing and that is amazing Google is and social networks are at driving CPAs at some point you get to a point of diminishing marginal returns you went to business school I didn't go to business school so you would know these economic terms better than me but but the main point here is to say that you know you may be able to spend a million dollars a month on Google but at some point you get to that next dollar and you say you know what this next dollar I can't spend it I can no longer efficiently grow my spend so I have to do something else and and that's I think in a lot of cases where where performance markers gets stuck yep and they say well I don't know what else to do I can't get the same CPA or the CPI that I'm getting with my current measurement on anything but Google and that's where I think you have to sort of unshackle yourself from your from your preconceived notions of performance and find ways to make something like YouTube work that's great you're so good at explaining the jargon and making it understandable we've talked a lot on think with Google about view-through conversions and how do you think about how video kind of works in the full funnel can you explain that to our audience yeah specific specifically to the first few years ago yes and later how they should how they talk about measure so so future is interesting because you know there there is a chance with with view through to use it incorrectly and so here's here's why sometimes there are companies and I won't name names it's not it's not Google though that give a hundred percent credit to a view through so if you through is essentially someone didn't click on the ad but they saw the ad and then they later converted so some companies say oh well if they saw the ad that converted one hundred percent we get the conversion credit the best practice in the industry for performance marketers just to do incremental incremental view-through conversions so essentially what you do is you say there were a hundred people that viewed this ad that converted there were a hundred people that didn't view this ad and maybe swap public service announcement ad and and and 80 of them converted the difference between that hundred versus eighty is the incremental number of conversions so it is a really important metric because the truth is that a an ad like a video ad and this is also very relevant to display advertising isn't really designed in many cases to get it click it's designed to get that person thinking about your products maybe it's designed to have that person leave whatever medium they're on and go directly to your site so that's why Uther's are important you just have to make sure that you're not giving too much credit so you're evaluating that you've got to be smart about it yep thank you I have a ton of questions that are coming from the audience and so I'm going to go to those now for those of you who are just tuning in I'm Bethany Poole the editor and chief of think with Google and I'm sitting here with David Burnett ski the CEO of 3q and we're going to take some of your questions the first question is coming from Chloe from Facebook as a search marketer who's new to video how should I think about ROI and measuring success it's a good question Chloe thank you for asking it so I would go back to what I said before if you are looking at YouTube and you're saying I'm expecting a conversion from a click and I'm expecting expecting it to have a cost per acquisition or a row ass or whatever your performance metric is to what you would see on a bottom of the funnel channel like Google or a social network you are going to be disappointed and that's not because youtube doesn't work it's just because it works differently so my view is that you have to dig into the metrics a little bit more deeply than you would on just a pixel-based conversion I'll give you a couple examples first of all I would say you should look a few throughs and incrementality a few throughs you should also look at that click-through conversions but there are other metrics that you can look into if you have the ability to do some sort of holdout as what was what I was talking about with the view through incrementality where you either choose a geography to run the video ads versus a geography where you don't run them or you can run a public service announcement something like that you can look at downstream metrics like did the number of brand searches in that geography where I'm running the video ad increase did the number of direct type-ins increase did I see an increase in conversion rate from my downstream channels you could look at Google for example if if I'm running a brand term on Google and I spent some money on YouTube following that YouTube ad this does my conversion rate on those brand keywords increase you can also even look at things like average order size did the shopping cart amount increase so so again this is this is these are things that are not a hundred percent foolproof again deterministic metrics they are probabilistic metrics but if you can identify the metrics that are important to your business and then come up with a a swear you feel confident that there truly is this incremental value tube you can start to spend a lot of money and and the the nice thing about it is most of you are performance compete rates are going to be still stuck in sort of the the last some case some cases last click sadly but but in general the click based conversion world and they're not going to spend their money where there's opportunity so it's kind of an arbitrage opportunity for performance marketers if they set up the right measurement thank you have another question from Daniel from Twitter what was your biggest obstacle when you first began using video as a direct response tool yeah good question Daniel I think you know I think I go back to the to the measurement that's definitely part of it for us you know we are so as a compass agency we are so grounded in performance marketing and bottom of the funnel we I'm clients who come to us and they as I said they're like I want to spend a dollar but I need you to get me two dollars in return and they have very limited patience in many cases because historically we've been able to deliver that ROI immediately so we're really it's kind of reeducation it's really sort of letting those marketers know it's okay to wait a little bit for the return because the returns gonna be worth it I think that I feel like in Silicon Valley which is where most of our clients are there's a real tendency of companies to start out with AdWords or I guess it's now called Google Ads used to that I personally feel sad to see AdWords going away but that could be another conversation we could have but you know people start out with bottom of the funnel and then they become pretty hesitant to move into mid funnel and so that's been a real upward battle for us you know I had one clients who said they went to the CFO and said you know I want to spend money in the video and even some direct response television and and the CFO said when I hear those words I think bloats is what he said and that's a very Silicon Valley attitude it's it's a Silicon Valley is a world of measurability and immediate results and so YouTube is a little bit different than what we're used to and so that's that takes a lot of time and frankly it takes time for my team as well to get used to it because we're just so used to being in immediate profit center that's what I would say it's a long answer to your question Dan right yeah thank you question from Brendan on YouTube can you talk about metrics from certain case studies and explain how you measured ROI for those studies yeah so I talked a little bit about it I mean in the case of the case study from curiosity stream I will say in that instance we were specifically measuring with the same parameters that we use for for bottom of the funnel for Google advertising so in that instance the measurement was specifically designed to be an apples to apples comparison against a Google ad and we were able to find that that the YouTube campaigns were commensurate with the performance that we see from Google so so yeah so the metrics would be literally could cost per acquisition on a on a click basis and then we might add a little bit of a future incrementality and when we measure of you through a mentality I should mention and I don't want to get too tactical that sometimes we are doing the actual holdout test to determine the mentality for specific specific campaign and sometimes we'll do a test like once a quarter and then we'll use that as an average but anyways it's it's at a base level in that type of ad it is a standard click based conversion test with any sort of attribution we can apply to it with view through incrementality great great thank you question from BCM labs on youtube I work with local businesses to help improve their revenues and build strong customer bases do you think that video marketing holds the same value for local businesses if so how would you implement yeah so the answer is always it depends but I'll give you one answer where it probably has more value and what answer would has less value so the less value answer is if you have a what I would describe as an immediate need to serve a local business so let's say that you are a plumber and you are trying to get people to call you when their bathroom breaks you know it is true that some people are gonna type in how to fix my bathroom on YouTube and that may be effective but the majority people are gonna be doing a search in Google they're gonna type in plumber or San Jose plumber and so really that if you're gonna spend your time on where should I where should I be investing in YouTube versus Google I mean in that case you actually want to optimize for for Google first now let's look at an alternative an example a local case let's say that you are a florist a florist is not someone you know there are plenty of searches for florists on Google but a florist you have a great opportunity to really show off your product through video I mean it is perfect perfect medium to show off how great your bouquets are so creating YouTube ads so that one person does type in wedding arraigned for all arrangement or you know floral ideas for wedding or something and you can join geo-target your campaigns to people who are thin a couple miles of your location that's a great way to differentiate yourself because let's face it if you go onto google and you type in florists everyone's just say we have beautiful flowers XYZ but the truth is in a in a business like that on google price is probably gonna be the biggest determinant and so you're gonna see people who are low cost leaders who are gonna say yes we can do your wedding for five hundred dollars but if you're a local business that really has something special in a form of art artistry and your floral bouquets you need something more than just text ads and so that's when youtube can be a great complement to your other forms of marketing great I have a question from Michelle from Twitter what's a cost-effective way for a small or mid-sized agency to get started with online video well I think that the as I said before the biggest cost barrier that is perceived is the creative and so I can give you a couple tips on that one is the Google marketplace or makes director mix I don't have the URL but I'm sure if you type in director mix you'll find it but Google has provided resources to help you with creating creative and create a marketplace of video creators there is a the nice thing about video is there are a lot of offshoring opportunities to find great video production shops especially if you're not looking at a live-action video if you're looking at an explainer video or a animated video you can just type in animated video or create explainer video how-to video into Google or YouTube and you're gonna get hundreds of people around the world I know Argentina has a lot of folks who are really good at graphic design and you know the prices that I've seen her sort of in the less than thousand dollars range and with the right animation video you can have a ton of success and in fact I would say that it is not always the case that the more expensive the video the better the results a great animation can go a long ways so that's probably the biggest initial cost I mean you know YouTube in a lot of ways is a great test test lab because you can you could do a test for five hundred dollars and get pretty good results and and the challenge historically when you look at traditional video which is TV terrestrial television is you can't run a 500 dollar ad and if you did run a 500 dollar ad you wouldn't have any granularity of metrics to look at what worked and what didn't work in fact you know in TV if you want to do geo targeting on TV you pay a big premium over a national campaign so YouTube is actually if you're trying to figure out if video works and then eventually try to do a TV strategy it is a very cost effective way to get started wonderful this is our final question from Adam from Facebook which new video formats are you most excited about the marketer should be considering yeah I mean I think that you can I can answer that two ways but what I would say is again from a from the perspective of a bottom of the funnel direct response person like myself anytime YouTube is applying the data data layers that they have in Google to YouTube I'm excited so we talked about truly truly free action action action ads we talked about customer match which is the first party data overlay anything of that nature and I and I have a feeling that there going to be a lot more innovations along those lines from what I've been hearing today at the marketing lives all of that is great great for us I think that if I if I take myself out of the world of direct response on online marketing I'm very interested to see if in the future that YouTube will do video formats that are similar to direct response television ads so try to replicate the success so many direct response advertisers have had running TV ads and I don't know what that's going to look like but but I think to me there's a there's a big question in my mind which is should we ultimately is YouTube more like search or is it more like television from a response from a response perspective I'm sort of betting long-term that it's actually going to be more like TV but for now I'm very excited about the innovation that Google is bringing in terms of the the search like ads but we'll have to see what happens in these yet thank you well thank you David so much for coming today and thank you everyone for tuning in we will be back tomorrow at the same time at 11:00 a.m. to take your questions with Laura Bowden who's a partner at Bain on how to use customer connections to drive growth check out the link in the chat chat to submit your questions ahead of time and we'll see you tomorrow thank you

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1 thought on “Why search engine marketers must become video marketers: Q&A with David Rodnitzky, 3Q Digital

  1. I find that youtube is a great influencer for traffic to our website and for my clients. However, I mix in OTT (over the top) streaming networks and Facebook / IG with our ADs. By adding in a great mix of video products that are targeted to my customers needs we have had great results in the past and current year. Thank you for posting.

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